Shah Rukh Khan is in denial, but he is actually a full-on commercial film buff-Karan Johar
8:16 AM
Madhureeta Mukherjee and Lasyapriya Sundaram (BOMBAY TIMES; November 1, 2017)
Shah Rukh Khan, Karan Johar
and Juno Chopra have joined hands as producers for the Sidharth
Malhotra-Sonakshi Sinha-Akshaye Khanna-starrer, Ittefaq, a thriller
directed by debutant Abhay Chopra. Karan calls it the '2.0' version of
the 1969 thriller of the same name that was directed by Yash Chopra. For
the first time, SRK and Karan Johar attempted a unique promotional
strategy - of keeping the promotions threadbare, apart from the fact that
even the lead cast have not given interviews to the media. In an
exclusive chat with Bombay Times, SRK and Karan discuss why thrillers
have never been the mainstay of commercial Hindi cinema, how their
passion for making movies goes beyond the commerce, and the one role SRK
is waiting to portray on screen. Excerpts...
SRK and Karan, how has it been not promoting Ittefaq? Does it make you uncomfortable because while promoting a film, you get a better understanding of how people are responding to your subject?
Karan Johar: I definitely think the decision we took to not promote the film dealt with some kind of anxiety through our journey. It's not so much the ramifications of it, but the insecurity of not doing something that bothers you. If we had gone all out promoting our film, it would probably make a difference to our opening numbers, but I strongly believe that Ittefaq is in that space where it's a Saturday film. It is one of those films, which has the potential to start very well and then word of mouth takes it to another level. Lately, I feel that's the trend that films have been following. Overt and excessive promotions work for event films, which are celebratory in nature. Ittefaq is a whodunnit movie where all we can say is that, 'We can't tell you anything or talk about it'. The same thing would have been said over and over again. We don't have songs to dance to, we don't have scenes we can discuss or plot points which can be revealed. So, what would we promote? When Shah Rukh and I discussed it, we took the call of not putting it out there. Of course, we all have to combat the fear whether people are aware of the film. We had to fight those insecurities, but I think we have done something new and we don't know whether it's right or wrong. In fact, I have often heard people tell me, 'You and SRK started this concept of marketing films.' More than me, I think it's SRK who popularised and explored film marketing the way he did.
SRK: I think marketing is not about talking a lot about the film, it is actually telling people what the film stands for. The last film Karan and I collaborated on was Dear Zindagi, and after some promotions, we left it at a point. Raees was in competition with another film, so we could take it over the top. Good marketing is about knowing the nature of the film. In a film like this, actors get a chance to play characters, which is a shift from the typical hero and heroines, so that becomes the part of the storytelling. If I tell you about the character, then I will have to tell you what the character does as well. Karan understands better if it's a Saturday film or a Friday film, but when you come out of the theatre, you will feel it's a cool film. You will feel, 'aisi film banni chahiye'.
In Hollywood and other parts of the world, the thriller genre is hugely tapped. But what deters filmmakers in Bollywood from exploring it more?
Karan: It's because of the way we tell our stories and the fact that what we make is mainstream entertainment. We are used to integrating song and dance sequences to our stories. A thriller is supposed to be pacy and keep the audience on the edge of their seats. We like blending music because that's our viewing habit. We make fewer thrillers because we don't conform to the real format of a thriller. We even have an interval. In fact, when Abhay Chopra, the director, wrote the film, he didn't write it with an interval. I asked, 'Where are we going to break for an interval?' We like to escalate the film and then stop, and then we have to re-escalate the film from that point. That's why a lot of our films suffer from the second-half phenomena. Eight out of 10 second halves are weak because of the interval. Nobody in any teaching course around the world will account for how to handle an interval in movies. It's only Hindi cinema that breaks the narrative and that's another problem with the thriller genre. It was a big challenge that we faced.
Three big production houses (Red Chillies Entertainment, Dharma Productions and BR Studios) have come together to make this project happen. Is this the way forward for films in the future?
Karan: Collaboration is everything. There is always something that you don't have and that someone else has. In this case, SRK had the vision to make it, I had the infrastructure to put it together and the creative resources, which is the most important aspect, was brought in by BR Studios. I will continue to do these kind of collaborations again and again. SRK, Gauri Shinde and I collaborated on Dear Zindagi. Gauri had the script and the talent, SRK is the only man who could have pulled off the role of Dr Jehangir Khan with that brilliance. All I did was step in as a media-broker to bring two people together. By collaborating, maybe the share of the pie gets divided, but I don't mind it. People who really don't know Shah Rukh and me well probably don't know that we have one big commonality. Shah Rukh and I don't make movies for money. He might do an event for money, I might host a show for money, but we will not make movies for money. If you make money on movies, it's a humongous upside. My father once told me that SRK was the first actor whose price for a film was Rs 25 lakh for nearly seven-eight years. By the time he took a leap to a crore, it was quite late. That's when I realised what he is all about. With cinema, we believe that it's about putting out good content and we have no problems collaborating with each other. Other people might think that 'hamara brand value dilute ho jata hai.' Kuch nahi hota. Eventually, we know that the movie is important and not the names behind it.
Having collaborated as producers for ten years, has your vision and appetite changed with respect to the kind of films you would like to make?
SRK: Creatively, Karan has always been on the ball. I think he understands what the audience would like to see, apart from being a creative person. I have no other sensibility apart from being creative and I just want to do it because it should be done. So, I could make a wrong choice. Hence, someone like Karan is a great asset, as he knows the changing face of cinema. He understands and absorbs things that are happening around and he brings it to Indian cinema. Even 8-10 years back, I would tell my friends that collaboration is the way forward. We just talked about it, but Karan went ahead and did it. Like we were talking about earlier, Karan understands the issues of an interval and the phenomena of the second half being a letdown. Having said that, films are an industry and not just an art form. So, you need to earn to survive. Just making films for the sake of money is wrong. Just making films for the sake of creativity is also wrong.
Were all of you as involved in the casting process?
Karan: It all started with Shah Rukh really liking the film and wanting to be a part of it as an actor. With him doing multiple films, he couldn't be a part of Ittefaq at that time. So, we decided that we should go ahead and make it. The casting was fairly easy because Sidharth Malhotra was offered the film two years ago and Sonakshi Sinha was ideal for the role. The narration and reading happened over two days and everyone was on board. Initially, SRK wanted to play Akshaye Khanna's part (of a cop).
SRK: Yes, I wanted to play a cop as I have never done it.
Karan: It is quite ironic that a lead actor who is such a big star has not played a cop in mainstream Hindi cinema.
As creative minds working together for so many years, do both of you have any disagreements?
Karan: If you don't like something, it's all about how you word it. Shah Rukh is so sensitive that he takes very long to express something that he doesn't like because he doesn't want to hurt you. He will take three hours to say that he doesn't like something instead of just saying it right away. Sometimes he gets shocked at my candid nature and tells me, 'Tu kaise bol leta hai yeh sab'. But I tell him that one has to get on with it. Gauri (SRK's wife) and I know this about him, so we have to break things very gently to him. When he saw the film, he had some valid points. SRK undermines his ability to be intuitive when it comes to anything mainstream. He is in denial, but he is actually a full-on commercial film buff. He likes to say he is not because he comes from an alternate headspace, as that's how he entered the movies. But, there is no one more masala and commercial than SRK.
SRK: I am a firm believer that what belongs to someone should remain with that person. Within that, you add on a little more, without ever disturbing that sensibility. I don't think that I could have done a Kuch Kuch Hota Hai or Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge as I never thought of myself as a guy who should do romantic films. When I tell people that I don't listen to a script, I don't mean that 'ki main kahani nahi sunta'. I just don't listen to it from the point of view of being a scriptwriter or a director. I believe that I have to trust the writer as he best knows what he has written. A director's life experiences are completely different from mine, so I need to add my creativity to it without disturbing the subject. It's not that I am oversensitive, but because of the respect and love that they have for me, I don't want them to feel that, 'abhi karna hi padega kyunki Shah Rukh bhai ne keh diya hai.' I don't want to close doors for discussion. I really want this film to do well, firstly, because I love the team and secondly, I feel this genre is still untapped.
JUNO CHOPRA
SRK is very creative. He helped us shape up Akshaye Khanna's role as the cop and gave us a lot of suggestions. Whether it was the posters or the trailer, he has always given us valuable inputs. We are very fortunate to have SRK and Karan together on board, and hopefully, you will like the film as much as we enjoyed making it.
SRK and Karan, how has it been not promoting Ittefaq? Does it make you uncomfortable because while promoting a film, you get a better understanding of how people are responding to your subject?
Karan Johar: I definitely think the decision we took to not promote the film dealt with some kind of anxiety through our journey. It's not so much the ramifications of it, but the insecurity of not doing something that bothers you. If we had gone all out promoting our film, it would probably make a difference to our opening numbers, but I strongly believe that Ittefaq is in that space where it's a Saturday film. It is one of those films, which has the potential to start very well and then word of mouth takes it to another level. Lately, I feel that's the trend that films have been following. Overt and excessive promotions work for event films, which are celebratory in nature. Ittefaq is a whodunnit movie where all we can say is that, 'We can't tell you anything or talk about it'. The same thing would have been said over and over again. We don't have songs to dance to, we don't have scenes we can discuss or plot points which can be revealed. So, what would we promote? When Shah Rukh and I discussed it, we took the call of not putting it out there. Of course, we all have to combat the fear whether people are aware of the film. We had to fight those insecurities, but I think we have done something new and we don't know whether it's right or wrong. In fact, I have often heard people tell me, 'You and SRK started this concept of marketing films.' More than me, I think it's SRK who popularised and explored film marketing the way he did.
SRK: I think marketing is not about talking a lot about the film, it is actually telling people what the film stands for. The last film Karan and I collaborated on was Dear Zindagi, and after some promotions, we left it at a point. Raees was in competition with another film, so we could take it over the top. Good marketing is about knowing the nature of the film. In a film like this, actors get a chance to play characters, which is a shift from the typical hero and heroines, so that becomes the part of the storytelling. If I tell you about the character, then I will have to tell you what the character does as well. Karan understands better if it's a Saturday film or a Friday film, but when you come out of the theatre, you will feel it's a cool film. You will feel, 'aisi film banni chahiye'.
In Hollywood and other parts of the world, the thriller genre is hugely tapped. But what deters filmmakers in Bollywood from exploring it more?
Karan: It's because of the way we tell our stories and the fact that what we make is mainstream entertainment. We are used to integrating song and dance sequences to our stories. A thriller is supposed to be pacy and keep the audience on the edge of their seats. We like blending music because that's our viewing habit. We make fewer thrillers because we don't conform to the real format of a thriller. We even have an interval. In fact, when Abhay Chopra, the director, wrote the film, he didn't write it with an interval. I asked, 'Where are we going to break for an interval?' We like to escalate the film and then stop, and then we have to re-escalate the film from that point. That's why a lot of our films suffer from the second-half phenomena. Eight out of 10 second halves are weak because of the interval. Nobody in any teaching course around the world will account for how to handle an interval in movies. It's only Hindi cinema that breaks the narrative and that's another problem with the thriller genre. It was a big challenge that we faced.
Three big production houses (Red Chillies Entertainment, Dharma Productions and BR Studios) have come together to make this project happen. Is this the way forward for films in the future?
Karan: Collaboration is everything. There is always something that you don't have and that someone else has. In this case, SRK had the vision to make it, I had the infrastructure to put it together and the creative resources, which is the most important aspect, was brought in by BR Studios. I will continue to do these kind of collaborations again and again. SRK, Gauri Shinde and I collaborated on Dear Zindagi. Gauri had the script and the talent, SRK is the only man who could have pulled off the role of Dr Jehangir Khan with that brilliance. All I did was step in as a media-broker to bring two people together. By collaborating, maybe the share of the pie gets divided, but I don't mind it. People who really don't know Shah Rukh and me well probably don't know that we have one big commonality. Shah Rukh and I don't make movies for money. He might do an event for money, I might host a show for money, but we will not make movies for money. If you make money on movies, it's a humongous upside. My father once told me that SRK was the first actor whose price for a film was Rs 25 lakh for nearly seven-eight years. By the time he took a leap to a crore, it was quite late. That's when I realised what he is all about. With cinema, we believe that it's about putting out good content and we have no problems collaborating with each other. Other people might think that 'hamara brand value dilute ho jata hai.' Kuch nahi hota. Eventually, we know that the movie is important and not the names behind it.
Having collaborated as producers for ten years, has your vision and appetite changed with respect to the kind of films you would like to make?
SRK: Creatively, Karan has always been on the ball. I think he understands what the audience would like to see, apart from being a creative person. I have no other sensibility apart from being creative and I just want to do it because it should be done. So, I could make a wrong choice. Hence, someone like Karan is a great asset, as he knows the changing face of cinema. He understands and absorbs things that are happening around and he brings it to Indian cinema. Even 8-10 years back, I would tell my friends that collaboration is the way forward. We just talked about it, but Karan went ahead and did it. Like we were talking about earlier, Karan understands the issues of an interval and the phenomena of the second half being a letdown. Having said that, films are an industry and not just an art form. So, you need to earn to survive. Just making films for the sake of money is wrong. Just making films for the sake of creativity is also wrong.
Were all of you as involved in the casting process?
Karan: It all started with Shah Rukh really liking the film and wanting to be a part of it as an actor. With him doing multiple films, he couldn't be a part of Ittefaq at that time. So, we decided that we should go ahead and make it. The casting was fairly easy because Sidharth Malhotra was offered the film two years ago and Sonakshi Sinha was ideal for the role. The narration and reading happened over two days and everyone was on board. Initially, SRK wanted to play Akshaye Khanna's part (of a cop).
SRK: Yes, I wanted to play a cop as I have never done it.
Karan: It is quite ironic that a lead actor who is such a big star has not played a cop in mainstream Hindi cinema.
As creative minds working together for so many years, do both of you have any disagreements?
Karan: If you don't like something, it's all about how you word it. Shah Rukh is so sensitive that he takes very long to express something that he doesn't like because he doesn't want to hurt you. He will take three hours to say that he doesn't like something instead of just saying it right away. Sometimes he gets shocked at my candid nature and tells me, 'Tu kaise bol leta hai yeh sab'. But I tell him that one has to get on with it. Gauri (SRK's wife) and I know this about him, so we have to break things very gently to him. When he saw the film, he had some valid points. SRK undermines his ability to be intuitive when it comes to anything mainstream. He is in denial, but he is actually a full-on commercial film buff. He likes to say he is not because he comes from an alternate headspace, as that's how he entered the movies. But, there is no one more masala and commercial than SRK.
SRK: I am a firm believer that what belongs to someone should remain with that person. Within that, you add on a little more, without ever disturbing that sensibility. I don't think that I could have done a Kuch Kuch Hota Hai or Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge as I never thought of myself as a guy who should do romantic films. When I tell people that I don't listen to a script, I don't mean that 'ki main kahani nahi sunta'. I just don't listen to it from the point of view of being a scriptwriter or a director. I believe that I have to trust the writer as he best knows what he has written. A director's life experiences are completely different from mine, so I need to add my creativity to it without disturbing the subject. It's not that I am oversensitive, but because of the respect and love that they have for me, I don't want them to feel that, 'abhi karna hi padega kyunki Shah Rukh bhai ne keh diya hai.' I don't want to close doors for discussion. I really want this film to do well, firstly, because I love the team and secondly, I feel this genre is still untapped.
JUNO CHOPRA
SRK is very creative. He helped us shape up Akshaye Khanna's role as the cop and gave us a lot of suggestions. Whether it was the posters or the trailer, he has always given us valuable inputs. We are very fortunate to have SRK and Karan together on board, and hopefully, you will like the film as much as we enjoyed making it.
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