Filmmaker Ram Gopal Varma’s Satya (1998) gave Bollywood two gifts—an iconic gangster drama, and a powerhouse performer in Manoj Bajpayee. Their collaborations since have resulted in experimental films, some hits, others misses. Now, the actor is set to reunite with his mentor for a movie, seven years after their last collaboration, Sarkar 3 (2017). Almost as if reading our mind, the first thing Bajpayee tells us is that it’s not a gangster drama.

“I am doing Ramu’s next project. As soon as the script is ready and a window opens in my schedule, we’ll do it. It’s not a gangster film, but it will be a vintage Ram Gopal Varma film,” he promises.

When it comes to the actor-director duo, one can expect unconventional stories. Think the psychological thriller Kaun (1999), or the road-trip-gone-wrong thriller Road (2002). What can we expect this time?

“[A few months ago], Ramu called me saying that he has a story developing in his mind; he hasn’t shared [the details]. Ramu has given me a career, and I always tell him that if he asks me to stand in any frame, I will stand there. He’ll call me after a few days with the storyline.”

Sequels are money-spinners these days. Would he and Varma consider a sequel to Satya, or their cop actioner, Shool (1999)? Bajpayee picks Shool 2 over Satya 2. “To see my character Samar Pratap Singh again, in a retired stage, would be an interesting storyline. He is on the verge of retirement, looking back at the life he had and how he has lost everything,” shares the actor.

Tell him his fans would love to see him reprise the role of Bhiku Mhatre from Satya, and he says, “I cannot play Bhiku Mhatre at my age today as he was a fireball; I don’t have that energy today. I’ll be happy if you just give me a chair to sit on and perform. There are no gangsters in our modern corporate world today. The mafia is all wiped out.”  

Irrespective of whether it’s an original story or a sequel, Bajpayee is simply glad to team up with the filmmaker again. It is Varma’s rebellious streak that the actor values the most.

He shares, “Ramu brings unpredictability to the scenes. He is unpredictable and I love that about him. There is a rebel in him even at this stage, a revolt against all that is conventional. That makes his films far more exciting.”

His deep baritone spills on to our pages, flowing into reams of stories and anecdotes, that often go on to become 'quotables' for ever. Such is the power of his impeccable voice and his unfettered memory. He has that supreme quality of keeping you riveted in the movies, and stirring up a conversation on the couch with as much passion. At 74, AB is cooler than the millenials of the day. He's a champ on social media - taking the good, the bad and the trollers in his stride. Yes, he plays it safe with words, but his words are seemingly unstoppable. At the same time, he's never lost the emotional connect with the people or the 'golden' phase of cinema that roots him to his beginnings. Long before he turned into a megastar. As the third instalment of Sarkar, directed by Ram Gopal Varma (RGV), awaits release, in a long-winding chat, he talks about trolls, timeless classics of Bollywood, legends of yore and the superstars of the future. Read on...

Ram Gopal Varma says that if you hadn't agreed to play Sarkar on screen, he wouldn't have made the film. He has also said, 'The Godfather can be made without Marlon Brando, but Sarkar cannot be made without Amitabh Bachchan.' Your reaction?
He is being too generous. Sarkar (2005) was my first film with Ramu, but even before it was made, I was always appreciative of his work. It was Abhishek who initiated the idea for Sarkar 3. Ramu and I kept meeting over the years and talking about it. We would discuss various aspects of life and movies and I would chat with him about palace politics. For instance, even in a king's home, there must be disturbances and domestic problems. We always wondered that if the king was emotionally upset about his personal issues and he had to make a decision that would impact the lives of others, would his choices be ridden by his emotional conflict. Would he carry the same vein of disappointment when he had to make a statement that would probably change the lives of millions?

That was one aspect. The other interesting aspect we explored was the several rings of power points around every powerful individual, be it a king, president, prime minister or any celebrity. Isn't it possible that each ring inadvertently becomes a power centre and has its individual influence? We thought of building a story which incorporates all of this. From Sarkar to Sarkar Raj (2008) and now Sarkar 3, the story has progressed. The main protagonist is being played by the same actor, unlike in The Godfather (1974). Marlon Brando finishes in one, and then Al Pacino takes over for the remaining two.

Talking about The Godfather, what impression did it leave on you when you first watched the film?
Who wasn't impacted by The Godfather? The whole world of mafia has been very intriguing, exciting and interesting... just to understand how it works, who are these people, what are their lives are and what is their thought process.

As part of Sarkar 3 promotions, you were interviewed for the first time ever by your director and that too, by someone like RGV who doesn't mince words...
I talk to all my directors about my movies and other films, which often leads to a healthy debate. For the first time, I was interviewed by my director (RGV) and it was filmed. I think a general interview makes for good reading, but there isn't any kind of documentation of facts and stories that go beyond the actor. I lament that and I feel that we are not leaving anything for posterity. I would love to know what went through Dilip (Kumar) saab's mind when he was doing Devdas (1955), how he prepared himself to say those lines in the way he did. What was Guru Dutt thinking when he was making Kaagaz Ke Phool (1959), which, according to me, is his most brilliant work... I would love to know why he used a certain kind of lighting or why he used a crane for a certain scene. Why did Raj Kapoor think of making Awaara (1951), and how did Mehboob saab conceive the idea of Mother India (1957)? It is sad that nobody talks about all this. So many greats have gone by and we have no documentation of these facts. After understanding those scenes, maybe you would want to go and watch the film again; it makes it so much more interesting. Somebody has to provoke actors to be able to do that. They do it in the West all the time, and not just with their own films. A friend of mine who was studying in a college in London, told me that she admired my films and wanted to meet me. When I was visiting London, she took me to SOAS (School of Asian Studies), and I went to a class where British students were watching one of my films, and the teacher (also a Brit), was decimating frame to frame. That is how they were being initiated to Hindi cinema. I am sure Indian institutes that have courses in film studies do that too, but it would be wonderful if such material reached more people. Our audiences are intelligent; it would only make them more aware if we have an archive or library where they can go and see and read all this.

In an interview, Ramu had said that while filming Sarkar, there was a scene that you wanted to shoot differently. You called him up at night and discussed it and there was a creative difference. The scene was reshot, but eventually, you retained the first cut. Do you often find it tough to detach from the character you are playing after you are done shooting for it?
Sometimes, after you finish your day's work, you go home and think about a particular scene or shot. Yes, there have been many times when I have called up directors in the middle of the night and asked them whether we should change a scene or do it better. Hrishida (Hrishikesh Mukherjee) would almost slap you and say, 'Rubbish! If you want a retake, you better pay for it'. As an actor, this is my personal attitude and I am fortunate that my directors often gave me the chance to reshoot a scene and improvise. Well, there were also times when I suggested something and it completely failed. It would happen with Manmohan Desai. I would tell him, 'Man...isko ek baar aur kar dete hai'. He would say, 'Ja, ja...sab theek hai'. I would request again and he would let us reshoot the scene. And once the shot was done, he would say, 'Pehle wala take rakhna, yeh bakwaas kiya hai isne' (laughs!). So, these are special moments we actors share with our directors.

Ramu is the kind of person who says what he feels. He is expressive, sometimes even politically incorrect, but he stands by what he says. How do you react to the flattering comments he makes about you on social media - in his own style (at times abusive, too)?
I think Ramu has the quality of an honest man, and nobody wants to appreciate that. He says what he feels, and there are very few who can express themselves. He is open-minded and he can tell you on your face that 'This is rubbish, I don't like what you are saying. I don't like what you are doing. How can you be working on this film? You have praised this film, but I think it is rubbish.' How wonderful it is to have someone who can be upfront and tell you what he is really thinking. That's his temperament and attitude and I don't think that there is anything wrong with it.

In an interview, Yami Gautam (your co-star in Sarkar 3) said that the name Amitabh Bachchan in itself is intimidating. Every time you work with actors from the younger generation, there is a process where they have to first get over their 'awe moment' and then move on to give the shot...
These are aspects in the mind of the media. We are all artistes and professionals who come on the set and act. Why should someone be intimidated by me?

Well, they would be nervous and conscious, at least?
No. In fact, I feel nervous around younger actors, because they are so well developed in their craft that I have great admiration for them. I see the ease with which the younger generation of actors work, that's the kind of ease that I never had in all these 48 years. I ask them how they are so comfortable doing what they are doing. It is quite amazing, really. I always tell Ranbir Kapoor that his face is God-gifted. He doesn't have to move his face or change his expressions much, he can just stand there and whatever he has to say is conveyed. For an actor, it is the most difficult thing to do. In Bajirao Mastani, Ranveer Singh was incredibly perfect. For someone who is not a Maharashtrian, the way he pulled off the role was impeccable. In Highway, there is a scene where Randeep Hooda is depressed and Alia Bhatt holds him close and consoles him. I cannot forget her expression in that scene. And then you see her in Dear Zindagi where she is unbelievably different. I see films of these actors and I learn a lot from them.

Lately, trolling has become a huge point of discussion and a growing concern, too. You have a massive following on social media and you are a prolific user of that platform. What are your views on it? Have you also become overcautious about what you write, tweet and blog, fearing how it will be interpreted?
I think initially, it was great fun to be able to express yourself, and more enjoyable when someone reacted to it. Then gradually, as I wrote certain things, I could see that there were people who were reading between the lines and making their own interpretations, and it appeared as though I was offending someone. I didn't want to do that. At the same time, I don't want to stop tweeting and I am not going to stop anyone from abusing me, but yes, I think I need to be a little cautious about what I say on social media and how I say it, because there could be people who could misinterpret it and perhaps, in a peculiar way, I could be responsible for either intimidating or insulting them. Sometimes, you have to be cautious about what you write. In the world that we live in today, where everything is open, known, spoken, heard and read, this has become an obvious issue. There are some who don't care about it and I admire them as they have the guts and the strength to express themselves and eventually face whatever happens. I feel that I don't want to insult anyone; therefore, I make an effort to check what I am saying and analyse it so that it doesn't offend someone.

Recently, the Harvard University Press came up with a book on your film Amar Akbar Anthony. Your thoughts?
Even around the time that it was being made (1977), there was an American author who had come down to Mumbai where I was shooting for Suhaag, and she had expressed her keenness in writing a book on Amar Akbar Anthony. There was an interest particularly in that film and many other films made by Manmohan Desai around that time. In this book, they have analysed the entire film and put it in the context of what India is today and what it means.

Do you think their perspective of the movie is very different from ours?
I don't know, I guess they would be able to say that better. I think that we make some very good cinema and when some people ask me, 'When are we going to make films like Hollywood?' I turn around and ask them, 'When is Hollywood going to make films like us?' Hai ki nahi, aisa films banake dikhao...

After winning accolades for his impressive performance in Kai Po Che! (KPC), Amit Sadh did a slew of films that failed to set the cash registers ringing. While this may have dissuaded any other actor trying to find his feet in Bollywood, Amit was determined and continued to hone his craft. His hard work paid off in last year's hit, Sultan. Now, he's back on screen in Ram Gopal Varma's Sarkar 3, in which he is essaying the character of the arrogant, volatile Shivaji Nagre. Excerpts from a conversation...

Unlike your peers Rajkummar Rao and Sushant Singh Rajput, you didn't cash in on the success of Kai Po Che!. Do you think you hit a roadblock?
Contrary to perception, life was smooth-sailing post KPC. Unfortunately, my next film released two years after that, so people thought I had hit a roadblock. Some of the films I had shot for also got delayed. Plus, I wasn't getting any offers. So, I decided to travel and live my life. I went for a six-month trip around the world on a shoestring budget. Also, as an actor, I have my own pace of doing things, but having said that, I still have to earn to pay my rent, so I have to keep working.

Was there a phase of self-doubt when you weren't getting films?
Yes, there was a time when I failed to understand the system. I would go for auditions, but I wouldn't get any parts. I wondered why this was happening. When I was going through a low phase in my career, I used to often ask Imran bhai, who drives my car but is like a father figure to me, if I had what it takes to be in Bollywood. One night, I cried and didn't let him go home. That's when he told me, 'If anyone in this country can become an actor, it's you. Not because of your looks or acting skills, but because you have such a great desire to act that no one can stop you.' Till today, he is my pillar of strength.

How do you deal with criticism?
I give a damn about criticism. I am a thick-skinned guy. I have seen so much in life that films are like taking a walk in the park for me. I have done jhaadu-pocha and bartan in people's houses. I have been a security guard, too. There is no job that I haven't done. I can do any kind of work, so just give me work! I don't care what perception you have about me. I just hope you go and watch my films.

You've often said that you don't need to have a godfather to survive in the industry...
Actors should stop complaining about nepotism. I am uneducated - I was asked to leave school in Class 11. I came to Mumbai with only Rs 300, yet there is no one in this industry who has not been nice to me. From filmmakers who have given me work to people who have given me advice, I feel blessed to have them in my life. What are we cribbing about? Why can't we let go of our grudges and be thankful? We're artistes and we should be oblivious to all these things. We have to stop playing the victim card. I think Ram Gopal Varma has had a huge role in helping me articulate my thoughts. He's not a guy who imposes his thought process on you. Ramu sir has ignited in me the ability to think, to have a perspective and understand films. His films have had a great impact on me. One amazing thing I have learnt from him is that whether you're in front of a camera - still or film - you have to emote; the camera will capture it.

Apparently, Amitabh Bachchan is the reason why you're in Sarkar 3...
Yes. Ramu sir told me that Mr Bachchan recommended my name for the role. People have this misconception that he is intimidating. Yes, we are in awe of him, but it's the aura around him that intimidates us, not him. He was very generous and nice to me. I am grateful that I am acting in the same era as his. Being on the same set and breathing the same air as him is almost like baptism for me. Other than that, as a co-actor, he is very giving. His consciousness for his craft is supreme.

What's happening on the personal front?
I am not looking for love. At this point, I am living life openly. I am engaged to my craft and busy with my work. I take things as they come. I don't have a special someone in my life because I am not the kind of man most women prefer. If I ever fall for a woman, it will happen at the right time.

An array of films -the raw Shiva, the cool Rangeela, the hard-hitting Satya, the spinechilling Kaun, the edgy Company, the scary Bhoot, the gritty Ek Haseena Thi and the Godfather-like Sarkar series - defines his approach to filmmaking. Agreeably, there was a time when his next was keenly awaited. And then came the downfall with a slew of unimpressive ventures.With Sarkar 3 and Amitabh Bachchan by his side, Ram Gopal Varma hopes to redeem himself as a filmmaker. Excerpts from our conversation with him:

Perception is that a sequel works well if it's released within a few years of the first film. The gap between Sarkar Raj and Sarkar 3 is nine years. Why is that so?
I never really had an idea to make another part after Sarkar Raj. Amitji (Amitabh Bachchan) started discussing the possibility of the third part with me two-three years ago. An idea struck and we're here. It wasn't a conscious decision to wait for so long. But sometimes, to be removed for a while has its advantages. You can look back on the strengths and weaknesses of the previous parts and make the new one better. Something like Godfather 3 came nearly 20 years after the second part. You need to give the subject a break before coming back to it.

It was speculated that the third instalment hit a roadblock as your collaboration with Ekta Kapoor post Sarkar Raj failed to take off.
That was a proposal for another film. There was no plan to make the third part with them (Ekta's company).

Sarkar evidently drew inspiration from Bal Thackeray and Godfather. Sarkar Raj made strong references to the Enron power project. Buzz is that Sarkar 3 is a spin on the rivalry between Udhav and Raj Thackeray. What's the truth?
There's a difference between being inspired by and being based on. Imagine a powerful man who, without being an authorised body, runs a parallel government purely on his charisma and the faith he instills in people. If Balasaheb Thackeray can exist, so can Sarkar. He was just a reference point. Godfather is not about the mafia. It's the story of a family. With Sarkar Raj, the idea was that a public figure will have issues to deal with, though I never thought of Enron as the basis of the story. While working on the subject, things just came up. As for Sarkar 3, I'd say that in any organisation, there are bound to be egos if it involves family members. How outsiders take advantage of a rift within the group is the gist of the narrative.

You have been critical of Amitabh Bachchan and have used some unkind words for him too. How do you get a nod from him for your projects, even when you've had a slew of flops?
When I'm critical, I'm being honest. It comes from the heart. I tell him what I would tell anyone else. I don't say anything behind his back. I believe he sees the sincerity and passion with which I approach my work.

You've teamed up with Manoj Bajpayee after very long. Was it easy to bury the hatchet and move on?
After a long journey and so many interactions, you lose perspective of what had happened. I made one phone call to Manoj for this film and he said yes. Even if we've put our differences aside, the media will make it a point to bring it up.

The first two films in the franchise had more seasoned artistes. Why did you decide on Amit Sadh and Yami Gautam for this instalment?
Amitji suggested Amit Sadh's name. I called him for a look test and he turned out to be impressive. He plays a cocky, arrogant guy in the film. He nailed the part. As for Yami, we've seen her as an innocent girl in her previous outings but here, she plays an intense role.

Did it bother you that the movie's release was pushed by over a month?
There's a misconception here. The release of a film has more to do with post-production and the number of screens you might get in a certain window. I'm the last person to be bothered. It doesn't make a difference whether the film releases one month earlier or later. There's an exaggerated perception of release dates. It has never happened that if two films release, I've seen only one.

At one time you were hailed as a maverick for your school of thought. Where do you think you went wrong in the last few years?
It is partly my arrogance in a sense of taking things for granted and partly because I was never questioned when I started making those films. Not that I didn't have this kind of mindset before. But I tried reinventing myself and left Mumbai for a while.

What did you learn in that phase?
It would be presumptuous to say I won't make mistakes. At most, I may not repeat them. Today, I want to make films different from what others are making or watching.

In hindsight, do you think turning your production house into a filmmaking factory backfired?
I'm often criticized that I do too much too soon and I don't concentrate, which isn't true. Very often, I've gone by my instinct. I made Satya on my instinct. Films don't work just by planning. If something shapes up well, it clicks. No matter what people say, I know I did my best at that point.

You've experimented with an outlandish technique in Department that also didn't work.
When a film works, the experiment is called new age cinema. If it doesn't, it is criticised. Sarkar was experimental with close-up treatment. It worked, so it was talked about; if it hadn't worked, it would have been criticised. Likes and dislikes are based on the final result.

A lot of your protégés have fallen out with you. Why?
I never fell in to fall out with them. I used people as resources to make films.

Your blunt candour on social media has only led to tiffs with the industry. People may stop taking you seriously. Don't you think so?
I don't think people care about what an actor or a director does apart from making a film. They don't have the time or energy to waste on things that are not related to their day-to-day existence. If I want a product, I don't care about the manufacturer's life.

What do you plan to make next?
I'm working on Arrest with Abhishek Bachchan, which will roll out soon. I'm also planning a horror film. And yes, there will be a Sarkar 4, but I don't know when.

Despite having no filmi connections, the pretty girl from Chandigarh made everyone sit up and take notice of her when she made her Bollywood debut in the surprise hit Vicky Donor (2012). In Yami Gautam's five-year career, she has seen not just successes, but also an equal number of misses at the box office; yet, that hasn't deterred her from pursuing her dream -movies. After portraying a vulnerable character in Kaabil earlier this year, the actress will soon be seen in Ram Gopal Varma's Sarkar 3, in which she is essaying a dark character for the first time. In a tête-à-tête, Yami shares her experience of working on the crime-drama franchise, how her failures have been instrumental in helping her climb the ladders of success and contrary to all the rumours, why love isn't on the cards...

Are you deliberately trying to shatter the girl-next-door image?
Honestly, as an actor, I prefer not having any image. I am trying to be more versatile, but it's not like I am out there to prove a point. Luckily, I have got a film, where I can fit in my character really easily. When Ramu sir approached me, I realised that it was an opportunity to attempt something different. The audience hasn't seen me in something like this and it's exciting. I am not nervous because I know how it has shaped up. It's scarier when there is ambiguity in your thoughts, but I was very clear about what I was doing in this film.

You initially rejected the idea of playing a negative character...
Actually, I was surprised and curious to know why Ramu wanted to cast me. I never imagined myself picking up a gun and shooting. This is the first time in my career that someone has approached me for a grey character. I was anxious and wondered what it was all about, but Ramu convinced me there was nothing negative - it was all grey. It's not like I have to mouth gory dialogues or that the character is caricaturish. I was jittery and had a hundred questions before going on the set. I remember asking Ramu how I should prepare for the role. I wanted to put in my best, but he told me that he wanted me to be effortless. He didn't want me to think too much because my character is very mysterious and the more he told me, the more I would think about it and carry baggage on the set.

Ramu is a man of many words. He is said to be moody and eccentric. How was your experience working with him?
As a person, he is very interesting. He can engage you in any kind of conversation. But on the set, he is very different and he doesn't talk much. He is absolutely clear about what he wants from a certain scene. He thinks like an editor when he's directing a scene. He knows exactly where a shot needs to begin and where it needs to end. I don't know if I should say this, but when I saw the rushes of the film, I thought, 'God, this girl isn't me; she's too mean.'

You once mentioned in an interview that failure is important in life. How have your setbacks helped you?
I want to rephrase that. It's difficult to define what failure is. Failure could be a movie not working, or something more emotional and personal. I think hardships can help you. I am referring to my box-office failures. And all the hardships I have gone through my career, even before Vicky Donor, have helped me a great deal, especially because I come from another city. I have always been an extremely shy person and I don' have any godfather in the industry. When you start from scratch and make your way up, all that experience counts. When you are on your own, the only thing that will take you ahead is confidence and your experiences. I didn't have too many choices, but I did the best with whatever opportunities I was given. After Vicky Donor, when Total Siyapaa didn't do well, I was very disappointed. I won't lie; there was a lot of pressure from everyone. Today, an actor's job isn't just to act - you have to take care of brands, media, PR etc. I used to wonder, if someone asks me a question about my failure, how will I answer that? I was very upset. And then, even the next film didn't work! That's when I realised that it is fine. I kept asking myself if I was capable enough to keep working in this industry and reach where I wanted to in life. I give my best, but whether a film works or not is not in my hands. The key is to keep moving and keep working hard. The day you embrace and respect your failures, everything falls into place. That's what happened with me and I magically bagged Kaabil.

With the recent debate around nepotism, do you feel the industry takes a long time to warm up to outsiders?
Well, it's not just the industry, even an outsider takes time to adapt to this place. It's a two-way street. I think everyone has different kinds of pressures and struggles. It all depends on destiny. If someone is not meant to make it here, it won't happen, no matter what. Of course, it is very hard for outsiders. But the moment you start thinking, 'Oh, I am an outsider', it becomes an excuse when things don't work out for you. There's a certain high when you reach your goals on your own, with your values intact. I have always believed that your work speaks for you. I'm happy and proud of my roots. I have surprised myself by reaching where I am today. After all, I am the same girl who ran away from the stage in school because she was too scared to recite a poem!

Your career's on the upswing... is there time for love or a relationship?
Not at all. I am absolutely in love with movies. God gave me an opportunity and so, it must be for a reason and the reason is movies, not love.

He was rejected by the National School of Drama (NSD) not once but four times, and years later, he is considered a powerhouse of talent. But Manoj Bajpayee would rather stay grounded and be grateful for the “highs“ he has seen in his career. The “lows“ have been a lot more, he admits, but even those contributed to his growth as a person. As he gears up for his next release, Naam Shabana, the actor speaks to BT about the choices he has made in life and what makes them all so unique. Excerpts:

What prompted you to do Naam Shabana? Was it because of filmmaker Neeraj Pandey?
Yes, it was Neeraj all the way. He is a friend and someone who I really admire. He takes my opinion on every film he does, which is really nice of him. In this case, I chose the role and he reworked it. I play an intelligence chief, who's Shabana's mentor. He shows no emotion and for him, his country comes before everything else.

What about your other film maker friend Ram Gopal Varma, who is directing you in Sarkar 3?
To be directed by him is quite an honour. This is the fourth film he is directing me in. Ramu is an amazing mind. People may have many things to say about him and the misfires he has had in his career. But the fact is that Ramu will never walk on a track that's smooth; he likes to walk on the edge and I like that about him.

What do you have to say about Ramu's penchant for courting controversy?
He has his opinions and I don't necessarily agree with everything. But during the shoot, I do what he wants me to do as an actor. That's what matters.

You too are opinionated and believe in speaking your mind. Has that posed a problem in an industry where diplomacy rules?
I don't think diplomacy really helps. If you don't deliver, nothing's going to help you. At the most, you will get a couple of small roles from some big production houses. You are expected to be professional and deliver. I think it's only for these reasons that I have survived with so many downs and very few ups in my career.

How do you cope with the lows?
I don't cope with the lows, I know how to live with them. I look at the offers and try and choose the best. If the offers are not exciting enough, I choose to go back to my village or Delhi. It's about filling the vacuum productively. People tend to get affected and they let the lows decide whether they are capable or not. That becomes the reason for their frustration and depression. In my case, if the offers are few and I have plenty of time, I'd rather go back to my hometown, reconnect with people and fill my empty pockets with loads of experiences.

Have you actually done it?
I have always done it; I just don't announce it to the world. If you let failure determine your course of action, you are living in a fool's paradise. It will only suck you in further and you are too good for that. Yes, at such times, the one worry is how to keep the kitchen fires burning, but that too, gets managed somehow by doing one big role. Also, I have never increased my needs and that has helped me.

You played hero in a few films and thereafter came a lull. Was that the biggest low you experienced in your career?
In those days, I did three to four hero-type films, but actually, they were all character-oriented roles. We had to put songs in those films, so that they could be sold. And I still don't feel good about it. Satya was originally made without songs, but they were added later. In Shool too, a song was included because that was the market requirement. Interestingly, those are considered some of my best films. So, the way I see it, I have played good roles, the rest were market diktats. Honestly, I am amazed that I have survived so long in the industry.

After films like Budhia Singh - Born To Run and Aligarh, for which you were appreciated, aren't you in a happier space?
It's a good space because somewhere, people have come to terms with the fact that he has not gone anywhere, he is still there (laughs). It is a comfortable space where people are letting me be; somewhere, they have given up being judgemental about me.

Coming back to Naam Shabana, you recently said that you have too many lines in the film...
If you put together everybody's dialogues and take a look, the number of lines I have are far more. I had to deliver them in a rather unemotional manner. That was tough, but we managed. My character has shaped up really well.

There's another Shabana in your life, your wife. How has she changed you?
Her contribution is far more than anybody else's. She has tweaked my personality completely. Our values were always the same and that's why we got married, but she has convinced me to do things that I was shy of doing. For example, she convinced me to compliment women who I always appreciated. I was open-minded but earlier that didn't come across because I didn't voice it. Now I do. Shabana was always into mainstream cinema, but now, she analyses parallel films very well, too. I really value her opinion. While she appreciates my films, she has also made me realise that working at home is no less than acting in front of the camera. She demands that I help her when ever I'm at home. That levels me. She makes me feel real.

She is an actress too, having done films like Kareeb and Fiza. Does she miss being in front of the camera?
Yes. She recently did a commercial and has been getting acting offers, too. She may take up something that she likes, but she is clear that it shouldn't be too time consuming because she wants to be with our daughter, Ara.

You were rejected by NSD many years ago. Now with all the laurels, do you feel vindicated?
I have so much respect for NSD that the term 'vindicated' doesn't even come to my mind. I feel very humbled when they call me for a session. The institute and I have mutual respect and it has grown over the years. They take great pride in my work and I take pride in visiting their campus. Even this year, I have given them four five days, where I will share my experiences with the students.

Do you wish to join politics at some point in your life?
I am a keen observer and I do have an opinion, but politics is a full-time job. I will not take it up, as I love my current job too much.