Irrfan, an artiste of exceptional sensitivity, changed the perception about Indian actors in the West by reminding them that we are not about just mannerism and theatrics, says Prasoon Joshi
Anshul Chaturvedi (BOMBAY TIMES; May 5, 2020)

Beyond the immediate reactions – the sorrow, the loss – what thoughts come to your mind when you think of Irrfan, the actor?
I was very closely in touch with him. He used to share a lot with me... meri kaafi us se baat-cheet hoti rehti thi, phone pe hi hoti thi aksar. Aur main aapko ye cheez keh sakta hoon ki pain se bahut guzra hai woh aadmi. I’ve spoken to him after his therapy sessions, they were like... he used to say, “Aisa lagta hai ki pain aur main ek hi cheez hain. Pehle toh main cheekhein marta tha, ab woh bhi band ho gaya hai. Ab aisa lagta hai main hi pain hoon, aur pain hi main hoon. Itna zyada painful uska procedure hota hai.”

I used to be stunned when, after saying that, he used to talk about coming back and finishing his work commitments. I used to feel ki aap ka pain agar aap puri tarah camouflage nahin kar sakte hain toh aap scene pe kaise aayenge? Aap kisi aur ka role play kar rahe hain. Toh completely, you know, overcoming that, and facing the camera, it’s remarkable – so the first thing is that.

The second thing is, he was a very sensitive artiste, a nuanced artiste. Sensitivity comes with you know... pain joh hota hai woh bhi utni hi shiddat se hota hai. Your intensity – the intensity you feel, the pain is also as intense as you feel other emotions. You accentuate it, and your pain is also accentuated. And that is the reason it is remarkable that he used to still come and face the camera. It is not an easy task.

And the sense of professionalism and commitment and also, you know... to laugh at the little ironies of life, that ability also he had not lost till the end. That is the reason I feel that it is something which is to be remembered, and to be inspired by. I used to feel inspired by it. In fact, when I used to talk to him, I used to feel kya yaar hum itni chhoti-chhoti problems mein uljhe hue hain, yeh aadmi itni badi problem ke baad bhi keh raha hai ki main aa ke abhi yeh kar raha hoon, woh kar raha hoon.

Is Hindi cinema feeling the loss of the man, or the actor, to a greater degree?
Irrfan was not a mannerism star. Even if he was doing an ad, he used to take over the screen. Iss generation mein itne fine kalakar bahut kam hai. I don’t think we (fully) acknowledge that sort of work. We are so used to fanfare and razzmatazz that what this man used to very subtly do probably will take a lot of study – which should be done. To see how effortlessly he has played so many roles which have, you know, found their space... and he’s completely versatile. He changed the perception about Indian actors in the western world also that – we are not about just mannerism and theatrics.

An actor for whom the gym wasn’t the core point of prepping for a role?
Yeah, yeah… That’s what, probably a new kind of stardom. The difference between ‘star’ and ‘artiste’ can very clearly be seen. Well, he is a star... but what’s the definition of it? Someone who lives the role and lives what he does, is what he did. We normally have less appreciation, especially in cinema industry, there is less appreciation for nonmannerism people because, you know, they are less bankable. Because they always reinvent the wheel.

So the people who reinvent the wheel are the people who always challenge the audience. He’s not someone who lulls you into passive consumption. He pushes you into active consumption. He makes you participate in what he is doing. So with Irrfan, it’s a two-way traffic. You also have to sort of, be with him in his exploration. While he is exploring a new way of approaching a role, you have to be with him. So he’s also a little demanding, thoda aap se mehnat ki tavaqqo (expectation) rakhte hain.

He doesn’t lull you into sitting and enjoying a spectacle. He expects you to hold his hand and go on a journey, and explore what he is exploring. Now that’s where the difference between star versus explorer is. A templated one is predictable so you know what you are expecting.

Like when you know what to expect from the popcorn, the cola and the movie at the outset, before you enter the hall – something that you couldn’t do with an Irrfan film?
Correct. Well said. But with Irrfan you are also on a journey as he was on a journey. He was a different kind of an actor, and a different kind of star. And a true star, in my opinion. I would keep him as one of the finest in the Indian film history. I will keep him there. I will not keep him as one of the great actors of this era. I think he was definitely beyond his era. Historically, I will keep him, as one of the best we ever had.

Rachana Dubey (BOMBAY TIMES; September 22, 2019)

Since August 2017, Prasoon Joshi has successfully chaired the Central Board of Film Certification (CBFC) with a fewer number of controversies. Prior to his term in office, the CBFC was seen as the villain in Bollywood’s narrative of undue cuts, personal comments and anger against decisions that they forcibly had to accept. In his last year as the CBFC chief, Joshi plans to make the most of his time in the office and leave it in a state of fine balance. Excerpts from BT’s conversation with him:

You’ve spent two years in office as the chairman of the Central Board of Film Certification. Buzz is that you might return for another term...
That’s not in my hands; it’s up to the authorities. I’m a poet at heart and I’m planning to work on a musical with lots of songs at some point. Right now, I am only thinking of making the most of the time I am left with in this office. My policy is, and has been, to iron out everything I can within the purview of the CBFC to ensure that it feels fit, and works as the fine balance between cinema and the citizens. In the last year that I have in this office, I plan to have more meetings, internal and external, in order to pave the way for anyone who steps in after me. So far, my entire tenure has been about holding dialogues to resolve issues. The intent of a creator is almost always good; it’s just that it’s misunderstood sometimes. That is when we need a middle ground, which we find through discussions.

What were the issues that needed to be ironed out or resolved?
First and foremost, most people don’t know or understand what an examining committee is and who its members are. It’s a body that comprises people from all walks of life. They present the probable point of view of a common person, who will eventually watch the film. There are lawyers, engineers, doctors and even housewives, who offer their valuable feedback to filmmakers. Now, a filmmaker might feel differently from what they think and may not agree with their point of view on certain scenes or dialogues, maybe because the intention with which he or she placed those elements in the film has not come across. Previously, we didn’t have as many discussions about these things. Now, there’s room for multiple, long and cordial discussions, which help both sides understand each other’s point of view.

Could you elaborate on what you mean when you refer to a filmmaker’s intent?
Sometimes, certain scenes or dialogues can give you an idea of how this person thinks when it comes to certain sensitive subjects or topics. For instance, the portrayal of women in cinema… While showing a policewoman in a film, if your camera is caressing her body, then there is something very questionable about your intent as a filmmaker. The time has come when we have to look at things differently. Our society is no longer ready to accept certain things. Sensitising filmmakers is very important and they also have to be less adamant and more flexible about what is being told to them. I have always seen my own work from the vantage point of being an artiste. Someone at the bank of a river feels peaceful seeing it, but someone swimming against its force may feel its aggression. The same thing, when seen from different vantage points, tends to have different perceptions and this difference needs to be understood by everyone. Also, the trust between an audience and an aritste should never be lost. If, as an audience, I don’t trust the intention of a filmmaker, I probably will never understand what he was really trying to convey through a film or a scene. There’s little difference between something commercial and something meant for self-satisfaction. A commercial product also has to be sensitive towards the needs and demands of the people.

For a long time, there has also been talk around the need to amend the Cinematograph Act, 1952, to make it more compatible for today’s times.
As the CBFC, we work within the parameters of the act. The changes or amendments are not in our purview. That can happen at the Parliament and ministry levels.

What about the new categories for certification that have been in deliberation stages for years now?
The introduction of categories is going through rounds of discussions and deliberations. The suggestions and recommendations in The Shyam Benegal Committee Report and several other reports submitted by committees formed before that are being discussed. The OTT platforms are a new reality of our times, which no one had probably accounted for when these reports were submitted. Categorisation and further classification of films is crucial, but it’s something that is being thought about. Certification happens in almost every country in the world. In a few countries, it’s an autonomous body and in countries like France, which are known for their bold and prolific content, the body is controlled by the government. Quality of cinema is different in different countries. We, as a nation, have to improve the quality of our cinema, and for that, we need a contemporary and an effective system of checks and balances. I have the utmost respect for artistes, who are also my fraternal friends, but we cannot ignore the need for improving the quality of our cinema. This year, I lead the delegation to Cannes where I spoke to many people and they didn’t have very complimentary things to say about our movies. So, we have to get out of the blame game internally, and make the country proud by making some world-class films. Poetry is one craft where we can say we have world-class poets; cinema has the potential to get there, too.

How do you think we can achieve that?
I think it’s a complex subject. We have some exceptionally talented filmmakers in our country, but we also need to tap talent from diverse backgrounds. Our cinema has a tendency to produce clones of anything that works at a given time. We need to get rid of that habit. We need more people from diverse places in the country, who can add a fresh perspective to a story. For instance, the story of a farmer can get a better perspective if it is narrated by someone who belongs to a farmer’s family. His or her perspective will be very different from someone who has only read about them. Uss cinema se mitti ki khushboo aayegi. Diversity needs to be encouraged and we need to get more talent from the grassroots level. This is a dilemma I face with advertising, too. We don’t need people who can do what anyone can do. People with distinct abilities and skill sets are needed to find a unique mix in the space of storytelling. At one point, we made some great films, but then, they started getting repetitive. India was shown from only one vantage point — from that typical exotic eye. We have to now make sure that the world comes out of that and sees the new India, which is going through a rapid change.

A sign of showing the rapidly-changing India is your recently-launched certificate and logo for the CBFC. What drove the design reboot?
So, change comes in two parts — one is the look and feel, and the second is how we work internally. We felt that certification should reflect the changing times that we’re living in. We’re digital and our cinema consumption is across all kinds of screens. While redesigning the logo and the certificate, we ensured that we have a font that is contemporary and the certificate is interactive. Also, for the last two years, I’ve been working closely with the officers and the board members to bring about a lot of changes in the way we work. We had participated in a lot of workshops and discussed ways to make the functioning smoother, internally and externally, and keep the house in order. With increasing dialogues with different pan-India industry bodies, we could also iron out issues that have existed for a long time. The industry put its faith in my intention of making the system smooth and I would credit them for being open to the idea of discussing and resolving problems amicably. The fact that I was trained to run companies came in handy. Even now, in the last year of my tenure, I am honestly trying to deliver on the work that I promised to do when I first held office. When you put the focus on work, half the issues are sorted on their own.

Prasoon Joshi on using his corporate experience to plug the holes in the CBFC
Himesh Mankad (MUMBAI MIRROR; September 2, 2019)

On Saturday, Prasoon Joshi, the Chairperson of the Central Board of Film Certification, unveiled the new logo and certificate design of censorship in Mumbai, and cleared the air on several contentious isssues, from the importance of the present certification and additional cuts for adult films to last-minute title changes. Excerpts:

Since you’ve taken over as chairperson, controversies around film certification have been few and far between. How have you managed to resolve the issues that plagued your predecessor?
I have worked in the corporate world and my idea of running an organisation is very professional. For me, it’s important to have the house in order. So, I had several training programmes with officers and committee members and together we corrected all the glitches and plugged the loopholes. I spent most of my time in correcting things which needed attention. I’m thankful to some of the industry leaders who helped and mentored me during crisis. The change came through dialogue.

Yes, Padmaavat was the last major controversy one recalls…
I believe makers make films with good intentions and that should come through. If there is an issue, we should not drag it but resolve it through dialogue. This was a new job for me because I’m an artiste too and had to learn to see things from the audience’s point of view. I’m happy with what we have achieved during these two years.

Many believe that the 1952 Cinematograph Act is outdated.
There is a lot of discussion happening for a solution.

What’s your take on the current certifications: ‘U’, ‘U/A’ and ‘A’?
The category of certificate is important as it informs the audience what they can expect from a film. Children are our future and we need to expose them to things gradually and not shock them. Sometimes, there is a disagreement on what makers consider adult content and grouse that the committees constituted of people from different walks of life don’t know much about cinema. But they are not supposed to know; their job is to express the point of view of the common person. For instance, a woman member saying that as a mother she feels strongly about a certain content. Maybe the maker has said something with a different intent, but it might be received differently. That’s where dialogue comes in.

But why should films which have already been certified as ‘A’ be subject to further cuts and beeps?
Some things and issues are not meant for public consumption. You won’t print an abusive word in the headline of your newspaper, will you? We follow the same code of conduct. Culture with respect to what to wear on certain occasions and how to present ourselves, has been created by us and now it’s our duty to protect it. Sure, we are evolving with time, but that should happen organically and collectively. One person can’t decide what is right because tehzeeb belongs to everyone.

Titles of films like Cheat India and Mental Hai Kya were changed to Why Cheat India? and Judgementall Hai Kya just prior to their release, while their trailers and other promotional material had been cleared and were in the public domain for weeks.
The two instances you mentioned were felt ideal by the committee. It’s a different thing when a title is used in the film, but the poster as a standalone gives a different message. When sensitive subjects crop up, we need to handle them with dialogue. In these cases, we mutually arrived at a decision.

And what’s happening with Prasoon the writer-lyricist?
My hands were full as I wanted to do justice to my new responsibility, so I couldn’t take up much work. I did Manikarnika last year. A couple of scripts are in the pipeline and you’ll hear of them soon.

Itishree Misra (BOMBAY TIMES; August 29, 2019)

Writer, lyricist, poet and also the Chairman of the Central Board of Film Certification (CBFC), Prasoon Joshi wears all his hats well and with precision. At a recent event, the writer of several films, including Bhaag Milkha Bhaag and the more recent Manikarnika - The Queen of Jhansi, Prasoon talks about the popularity of content-driven films and making CBFC controversy-free.

Lately, we’ve seen content-driven films like Badhaai Ho, Andhadhun, Uri: The Surgical Strike and Raazi doing very well at the box office, as opposed to films that had big stars. Would you say that the story of the film is its hero now?
Yes, in a way. See we are dealing with a satiated generation of people. There’s so much of entertainment available vis-à-vis what we had before. Gone are the days when we used to wait for Fridays and wonder which film will release this week and woh chahe jo bhi ho, dekhni hi hai. That was the deprived generation, itna TV nahi tha, web toh tha hi nahi. Now when people go to watch a film, they make an informed decision. So your expectations are very different. Just watching your favourite stars doing something on screen is not what you’re there for.

Also gone are the days when you could not see your favourite star. Your favourite star is now in your phone! He or she is there on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and even on TV. So you’re no longer being deprived of seeing your favourite star. Your hero or heroine is now right in front of your eyes 24X7. The star looks more approachable, more tactile, so they appear less god-like. They are freely discussing their problems with you on social media. So today, if your film doesn’t promise good content, it’s unlikely that people will go and watch it.

So is the age of stars over in Bollywood vis-à-vis actors?
The age of stars can never be over, but the definition of stars is no longer the same. That god-like, larger-than-life persona is no longer there. There will always be stars. People will talk about a particular person and say I love the way he or she talks or looks or acts, but that sense of worship that people used to feel, that has changed. It’s now a more multidimensional relationship that people share with a star. They also want to know how their star lives, eats, how witty they are, is he or she intelligent or not, what he or she does in their everyday lives and their personal relationships. So it’s no more a relationship of a star and a fan, it’s more like that of a friend.

You have taken a strong stand against the open letter written by 49 filmmakers, activists and artists against mob lynchings to the government. You along with 61 others have said that they ‘expressed selective concern and demonstrated a clear political bias and motive.’ Would you want to say more on the topic?
I feel human life is very important. There’s no debate on that. If somebody says that human life is getting compromised somewhere, of course one will raise their voice. You have to raise your voice and bring it to the notice of the authorities. You can’t just let it go on, and you can’t justify it under any disguise or garb. But if the topic would have been that only, I would have said nothing. But unfortunately that’s not the case. The people who are bringing this to your notice, haven’t done this for the first time, they have been doing it again and again. I question the intent of it. I feel there is a definite dislike. I feel this is condescending and unfair. You look at any policy of the current government, they are not biased towards anybody or any particular section of the society. They’re being absolutely neutral. If you feel something is not right, then there’s two ways of looking at it. One is that ‘Oh! There’s something not right and we need to constructively look at this and solve this problem.’ Second is you’re portraying a dark picture and you’re making people feel as if nothing is going right in this country and it’s doomed. And that is depressing. That is misleading people; that is not constructive. That is because your approach is to malign the government and say that these people do not know governance. And that’s only because you don’t agree with them, you don’t like them. And all I’m saying is that if that is the reason of your criticism then I don’t find it genuine.

CBFC has really become non-controversial these days, so much so that it’s no longer in news.
That’s because I’m totally fair. No one can say that I am above board. The doors of CBFC are open. Main vivaad ki jagah vichaar-vimarsh mein yaqeen rakhta hoon. Mujhe lagta hai through discussion, through dialogue, you can always put forth your point. What is the role of the CBFC? It is a set of representation of people. Who is there in the committee of CBFC? Housewives, school teachers, engineers, advocates, these are the kind of normal people who sit in the committee and they watch a film to see how it will impact the people. That is what our job is. Filmmakers sometimes get agitated and say that the board doesn’t understand the film. Of course, they don’t understand the film! They are there to bring to you the point of view of the common people. So I tell them, please sit together and the filmmaker will tell you his or her point of view and you tell the point of view of the common person. There definitely would be a common meeting ground for them both, if they honestly talk. So I have only tried to bring a lot of transparency and dialogues through which you see, a lot of things have been solved. Take for instance Article 15, it deals with a sensitive subject, but still it was released. Also Padmaavat, there was so much of confusion but in the end it was released, also the film on our Prime Minister, PM Narendra Modi. I don’t know why there used to be so much of controversy. Also because I request the filmmakers to not use CBFC to create unnecessary controversies for their marketing or promotions. Because I would not be able to give any quotes for your promotions.

In reference to Narendra Modi biopic release delay, Prasoon Joshi speaks up
As told to BOMBAY TIMES (April 8, 2019)

After the Central Board for Film Certification came under scrutiny following the delay in the release of the Vivek Oberoi-starrer PM Narendra Modi because it didn’t have a CBFC certificate, Chairperson Prasoon Joshi has cleared the air regarding the agency’s role in the delay of the film’s release, highlighting concern over “irresponsible statements” made about the CBFC. In a statement, Joshi said, “I am surprised by the irresponsible statements that are being made regarding CBFC. Facts should be checked before making such allegations.”

Stating that he wanted to “bring focus back on facts”, the lyricist explained that it wasn’t the CBFC that was responsible for the film’s release being delayed from its original date of April 5. “We had already stated that the film is yet to be certified and is in the process of certification as per the requisite guidelines. Let this be clear as well that the CBFC’s mandate is to review content as per guidelines, not to look into timing of release of the films. That is the prerogative of the makers,” the statement read.

The film, directed by Omung Kumar, was slated for release on April 5, but had to be postponed as it could not get the CBFC certificate in time. Several news reports at the time said that a film must be submitted 68 days prior to its release date in order to get the certificate. Joshi, however, clarified that this is a misconception as 68 days is the maximum time the CBFC can take to certify a film. He elaborated in the statement, “The period of 68 days is the maximum period within which CBFC has to certify films. However, most of the films, including regional films, are actually certified in a much shorter time than this. Therefore, the impression that is being attempted that every film should take minimum 68 days for its certification is absolutely false and contrary to the basic nature of our organisation, which is expected to facilitate industry within the checks and balances as per the statutory guidelines.”

The CBFC chief maintained that the body had followed “a fair and non-judgemental process” in the film’s certification and he felt compelled to clear the air after conflicting reports. He said, “In keeping with professional ethics a fair and non-judgemental process is followed as per the requisite guidelines in all films that come to CBFC. To the people at large, this clear and clean perspective is required to be given by all responsible organisations, not misinformation to mislead.”

Riya Sharma (BOMBAY TIMES; February 19, 2019)

Prasoon Joshi – chairperson of the Central Board of Film Certification and chairman of one of the world’s leading ad agency network – has been many things during the course of his career. A lyricist, screenwriter, poet and marketer – but for him, donning these ‘hats’ was a result of his ‘majburiyan’.

Speaking at the Business Conclave organised by Shri Ram College of Commerce, Prasoon shared with the audience how he got into advertising, his hometown in Uttarakhand and how it impacted his life, and why he was never a rebel.

‘INDEBTED TO MY CHILDHOOD DAYS’

Prasoon was the first speaker at the event and said that he had a great impression of the institute. “I haven’t studied here, but I have met many people, in my profession and company, who come from your institute and I have a great impression about what you learn here. I respect your institution immensely,” he said before answering questions by the session’s moderator.

The first question that the CBFC chief was asked was about his journey from the leisurely pace of Uttarakhand to the busy life in a metro. “My journey has been from a small, humble middle-class family. For a long time, I had no clue what I wanted to do, and that was the frustrating phase. But looking back, I think the confusing times are the most fertile times. When you do not know what you need to do is the time when you explore. And when you explore, life becomes clearer to you. The connectivity in Uttarakhand was not like today, so all you had were books, nature and elders to learn from. That’s the time I started writing and at a very young age, at 17, my book had come out because I was writing extensively. But at a very early age, I also realised the commercial reality of writing, especially poetry. Meri rozi roti nahi chalne wali iss kaam se. I knew I had to do something else to sustain myself. I came from a family of teachers, all I inherited was education. My initial days have been very rewarding in terms of learning,” he said.

He continued, “The place where I come from – wahan log apne gharo mein taale nahi lagate thay. Ek tarah ka trust aap seekhte hain, aur ye sab cheezein jo aap bachpan mein seekhte hain, these become an important part of you. That is why I am always indebted to my childhood days in Uttarakhand which taught me a lot.”

‘I FELT I COULD SUSTAIN MYSELF IN ADVERTISING’

Prasoon started his career with advertising, and is currently the CBFC chief, a lyricist, poet, and the list goes on. Which was probably why he was asked that since he has donned many hats, which is closest to his heart? He answered, “Hat is a very fashionable term. The problem is, unfortunately I did not have the luxury to be that fashionable, to think that these professions were hats. These were not hats, woh meri majburiyan thi. Jab aap ek madhyam pariwar se aate ho aur aap likhna chahte ho, aur aapko maloom hai kavitaon ki market nahi hai, what would you do? You can take just two decisions. Aap escapist ho jayein ya apne already pareshan ma baap ko aur pareshan karein. Unse bolein ki mujhse nahi ho raha, bhejte jaao paise. Woh kahein, beta kahan se bhejun? Jitni meri poonji thi woh tu apni kavitaon ki bhent chadha chuka hai, kab tak chadhaega?”

He continued, “The question is – we need to understand that our parents do a lot for us. Iski wajah se main rebel bhi nahi ho paaya. Woh hote hai na bachhe, kehte hain ki main guitar uthaake ghar se nikal gaya, I can’t relate to that because you know how much your family cares for you. I discovered there is a profession like advertising while doing my MBA. That is when I realised that someone will pay me to think of these crazy stories, narratives, ideas, songs and solving the brand’s problems. I found a fit there. And I felt I can sustain myself doing this. Honestly, I did not join advertising thinking that one day, I will head an agency. The only thing I knew was that it seemed natural and that I’d be able to sustain myself.”

Deepali Singh (DNA; January 31, 2019)

Prasoon Joshi admits that when it comes to stories of bravery and national heroes, he has always wondered why Rani Lakshmibai’s story hasn’t found many takers in Bollywood. That’s why he was more than happy to green-light Manikarnika: The Queen Of Jhansi, when it was offered to him. In a candid chat, the wordsmith reveals more. Excerpts…

Post Neerja (2016), you didn’t choose any other assignment?
Yes, I was contemplating many subjects. Moreover, I was travelling a lot. I also became the chief of the Censor Board of Film Certification (CBFC) and was trying to streamline as well as smoothen the whole process. I signed Manikarnika two years ago.

So, what made you say yes to it?
I had been thinking of doing something new. Producer Kamal Jain explained the subject to me and asked me if I would be interested. Subsequently, I met the entire team. The one thing that struck me was why more films have not been made on Rani Lakshmibai before. She is a national hero and I felt ashamed that we haven’t done many movies on her... at least five films should have been. So, I felt I must write for this project.

What do you feel about Kangana Ranaut playing the lead role?
She was an apt choice. I have always liked her work. I feel she does every role with complete dedication. She was a natural fit here.

Does a historical require more research than a contemporary subject?
Every subject requires research and understanding. As for Rani Lakshmibai, I knew more folklore than the nitty-gritty of her story. But it’s something that has always interested me because I have this natural inclination towards bravery, valour and stories of our pre-independence era. So, writing for it was an organic process. The key message is that the independence we gained wasn’t achieved only because of slogans, but because of sacrifice. Sirf naaron se nahin, khoon ki dhaaron se bhi mili hai azaadi. Many people, especially the youth, don’t realise it. Rani Lakshmibai’s story inspires us. It asks whether you want to waste your youth or dedicate it to the country. What did she get out of it? She could have taken a pension and lived a good life. That’s what struck me and I wrote Main rahoon ya na rahoon, Bharat yeh rehna chahiye.

You have had a long association with Shankar, Ehsaan and Loy. How was it collaborating with them once again?
From Phir Milenge (2004) to Taare Zameen Par (2007), London Dreams (2009) and Bhaag Milkha Bhaag (2013), we have done a lot of films together. It’s always a joy to work with them.

Deepali Singh (DNA; January 25, 2019)

On January 15, when the song Bharat from Manikarnika: The Queen of Jhansi was launched, lyricist Prasoon Joshi coined the hashtag, ‘Desh Prem Jatao’. Explaining the thought behind it, he tells us, “If you feel love for your motherland, show it. Express it in any way you want to, through art, music or social change. But don’t hesitate to show it.”

The wordsmith wears his patriotism on his sleeve. And he expresses it through his music and his words. How else can you explain the beautiful lyrics for Bharat that go, Main rahoon ya na rahoon, Bharat yeh rehna chahiye. Silsila yeh baad mere yun hi chalna chahiye. “The words resonate with you because Rani Lakshmibai’s sacrifice was real,” adds the Censor Board chief.

Over the years, Bollywood has seen quite a few desh-bhakti numbers that have struck a chord with the audience. The reason, he feels, is that they don’t have ‘manufactured patriotism’. “Machines don’t resonate, human feelings do. For instance, in another context, just like Bharat is the soul of Manikarnika, Roobaroo was the soul of Rang De Basanti (2006). You have to search for that soul. A patriotic song is nothing but the reflection of the truth,” opines the National Award winner.

Among his numbers, Prasoon likes the songs that he penned for Rang De Basanti. “I really like Des Rangila in Fanaa (2006) too,” he tells us. One of his all-time favourites is the Lata Mangeshkar track, Aye Mere Watan Ke Logon. “It still resonates with everyone because it talks about the sacrifices made by people to achieve this freedom we enjoy today. Hum kitna bhi jhuthla lein, hamare desh ke veeron ko bhulane ki koshish karein, aap nahi bhula payenge, kyunki woh balidaan sachche thhe,” he adds.

With such beautiful tracks being created in Hindi cinema, how does he react when people say that today’s lyrics have lost their depth and there is no poetry left in Bollywood anymore? “Every song doesn’t have depth, I agree. If you ask me, if there has been a decline in the quality of songs as compared to earlier, I would say, surely 100 per cent,” he admits. But then, the Padma Shri recipient asks, “When have we tried to nurture poets and poetry?”

“It’s easy to desire a rose to bloom in your garden, but you have to create the right atmosphere for it. Gulab ke liye mitti bhi toh honi chahiye. In a similar way, poets too require a certain atmosphere to be nurtured,” concludes Prasoon.

Rachana Dubey (BOMBAY TIMES; November 27, 2018)

As a lyricist, he puts feelings into words. As a screenwriter, he adds visual imagination to what is a mere story. And as the chief of the Central Board of Film Certification, he strives to strike a balance between cinematic sensibilities and social responsibilities. At the recent International Film Festival of India, BT spoke to Prasoon Joshi about the importance of poetry and why certification plays a key role in India. Excerpts...

Just about everything in cinema, except writing lyrics and poetry, has become a profession. Can being a poet become a profession in India?
Poetry can’t be a full-fledged profession because certain things cannot be seen in a straight-jacketed or calculated manner. Can poetry be a factory product? No, but the significance of encouraging people to write poetry should be understood. You must have noticed that leaders and business bigwigs often quote poems in their speeches when straight sentences fall short and they want to express themselves. When people find poetry so helpful, I wonder why it is not taught adequately. If the poetic eye is dead, we lose a lot as a society. We should have more appreciators and nurturers of poetry to make our children better human beings. They will become more compassionate and we will have diverse views, become nuanced as people and have a more sensitive society.

With your role as the CBFC chief, Bollywood assignments and other engagements, how do you make time for poetry?
I make my plans broadly. Of course, I do miscalculate sometimes, but being a part of the advertising profession, which is more deadline-driven than films, I am disciplined with timings. It’s all a question of priorities. Life does take a toll on all of us, par kuch cheezon ke liye waqt churana padta hai.

Among your professional responsibilities, your role as the CBFC chief is probably the one that is more daunting. Do you agree?
CBFC’s work doesn’t come naturally to me because I am an artist, and assessing someone’s work while balancing cinematic sensibilities and societal responsibilities is not easy. It’s an honorary job that I have with the CBFC, but whenever I am asked for an opinion, I step in. For me, everything has been a learning experience. I believe in taking on challenges and when this role was offered to me, I decided to try my best. It’s easy to be an armchair critic; most people chicken out when the time comes to face challenges. I decided to brave the challenge. People in the industry were receptive with me, which is why things have been quite smooth so far. Film certification is an important part of filmmaking. You can’t tell a consumer that I love your share of the wallet, but I don’t want your share of the voice. It’s a different matter when you do something for your own satisfaction, but the moment you do it commercially, you have to act responsibly. My fundamental belief is that artists don’t want to harm and that makes things easy for me. Sometimes, people are so engrossed in creating their work that they can’t think of how things will be perceived. People listen to me, they understand my point of view, and so, we have a peaceful dialogue to reach a common ground.

Pahlaj Nihalani has been crying foul about the cuts being suggested in his film Rangeela Raja…
As creative people, we have to understand that there are certain issues which are more important than ever before and we can’t take them casually. One is the portrayal of women. The objections/suggestions/modifications that were suggested for Rangeela Raja were around that. In the name of humour, if you are glorifying violence against women, or if objectification of women is shown as entertainment, we need to take a call. Of course, you can bring in the age-old argument of freedom of expression and say, ‘I am free to express the way I want.’ Yes, you are free to express, but do it a little more sensitively. For many years, we have approached the portrayal of women in our cinema, casually. If we don’t introspect, we can’t change anything in that space. One important issue the CBFC faces is that when a film is offered an A certificate, which was the case here as well, the makers insisted on UA. When a film’s makers demand UA certificate for a film permissible only for adults, it puts us in a tight spot. We can’t allow children to watch content meant for adults. I don’t want to talk about Mr Nihalani here, because he is an elder and I have never commented on him as an individual. We need to understand that when a committee comprising 70 per cent women strongly feels that a particular film cannot be watched by children with their parents, we should respect that. The purpose of certification is to help people make an informed choice about a film.

Talking about the portrayal of women, you have written the dialogue and lyrics for Manikarnika - The Queen of Jhansi. Given that the film has been through plenty of ups and downs, how has the experience been? And how would things work when the film comes up for certification given that you are still the head of the CBFC?
Rani Laxmibai is exemplary, I have huge respect for her. It was a fantastic experience presenting her life on celluloid. Personally, it was a life-enhancing experience to learn so much about her. Bhaag Milkha Bhaag gave me an insight into the world of sports and the mind of a wonderful sportsperson. Taare Zameen Par helped me understand dyslexia. Manikarnika gave me an insight into our fight for freedom. While the fate of a film is not in anyone’s hands, a lot of hard work has gone into it over a period of time. When it comes to certification, I distance myself from every film that involves me. I did that for Vishwaroopam 2 as well.

Anshul Chaturvedi (BOMBAY TIMES; November 3, 2018)

The news space for the past few months has been lacking the almost default quota of stories about censorship vs free expression, and the theatrics of leaked stories, inexplicable cuts, appeals and tribunals. In that rare noncombative space, the CBFC and its chairperson Prasoon Joshi have been doing other things, such as a recent workshop that was attended by both the CBFC’s board members and representatives of Hindi and regional film associations. Prasoon explains why such dialogue is both unprecedented and essential, and why, while very few films are facing restrictions, collective viewing through the medium of cinema cannot yet be treated on the even more liberal benchmarks as individual viewing experiences. Excerpts:

How effective have been the recent efforts of the CBFC to engage with the cinematic community? You have held a meeting and workshop with industry representatives recently.
Filmmakers talk of sensitising the panel’s members. And we, the panel, need to get filmmakers on board, so we can both understand how people are looking at cinema with changing times. So, activities like that workshop was very important. They had their own queries in their head. It was a kind of a Q&A which I had with them to make them sort of familiar with what we are trying to do. I keep telling them it’s not about censoring, the spelling has to change to sensor. You know, if it comes from sensitivity and sensorial, then it should be sensor, not censor.

The idea is to keep talking to the film industry, taking feedback, and making sure that the staff and the people who work every day are sensitised to that feedback. That sensitisation has reflected in the kinds of films that are coming through, where people sometimes wonder how they came out without any cuts — films like Mukkabaaz or a Raazi or Padmaavat or a Mulk or recently, the documentary The Argumentative Indian, where I personally sat with the filmmaker. Or Manto.

Also, there’s more to it than clearing movies. We have digitised the entire process. We are going back to as much as our old record is, to digitise every certificate, so that if people want to get their certificate — if people have lost it and if the third generation of people want to obtain the certificate, you know — they can get it. Lakhs of them have already been done, and the process is on. We are also introducing a more contemporary design of film certificates which will also have a QR code.

Do digital processes translate into quicker turnaround time for movies?
Some filmmakers want their movies sorted very urgently. Sometimes I feel a filmmaker also needs to understand that no matter how digitised we’ve made the process, still, a film reviewing process is a human process — people have to sit, watch a three-hour film, discuss it, go through the Cinematograph Act, and offer their advice. That’s a human process. That cannot be shortened, that cannot be digitised. No computer can certify your film. It has to be understood ki yeh nahi hai ki aap aaj apply kar rahe ho aur kal aapko certificate dega... they have to give a minimum of three weeks. The process gives us many much more time — 68 days — but we don’t take that much of time, we usually take much less time, try to do it as fast as possible. But sometimes people don’t understand the volumes being handled. This year we have issued 20,000 certificates already.

By that benchmark, in 2018, the ‘CBFC vs filmmaker’ headlines haven’t been frequent.
See, those stories, when I consider them even as a marketing person, I feel it’s a very dirty way of marketing. People trying to portray as if they are resisting pressure and saying that CBFC has done this, has done that. That doesn’t do justice to the people. If you come and see the people who are working in the CBFC, they are working day and night. On Saturdays also they are working, trying to clear the backlog of films because staffing has not gone up so much as the number of films over the years. The amount of films we are producing every year has been increasing, and so has the workload.

As far as sensibility is concerned, I have worked really hard in terms of communicating that. You can talk to the CBFC people and they can tell you that films don’t face unnecessary deletions. Most of the times, in fact, people are going for voluntary cuts and voluntary changes.

Like Manmarziyaan? We’ve often had headlines saying that the CBFC buckled under a community’s pressure — this time they did not, but the filmmakers still opted to take cuts.
Yes. So, I have said that we are trying to do as much — as sensibly as possible towards the filmmaker. And being an artist I understand that, but there is also what needs to be understood is that the job of CBFC is to strike a balance. A fine balance between cinematic sensibilities and social sensitivities. It’s a tough job. And I think the industry has appreciated that.

Our interaction with the industry was a first of sorts. The industry has, in the recent past, no memory of interacting with the CBFC and tabling their issues. They felt that we are doing mostly certification, not censoring. There is nothing like that ‘the CBFC is trying to resist our creative work’. They were very appreciative, and at the same time I could communicate to them that how difficult the job is – and in terms of a fine line and in terms of striking the balance. Main hamesha kehta raha hoon — vivaad se zyada vichar-vimarsh se kaam hota hai. Vivaad se nahi hota hai. Vivaad, you know, makes everybody’s life difficult. There is nothing that comes out of it. By talking, by sitting across the table, you can resolve difficult questions.

Many filmmakers, when speaking about projects they have made for the online/streaming space recently, say ‘Here we don’t have to factor in about what certification we will get. We make it and we screen it.’
That’s their choice. What can I say about that?

When people in the censor system come with their questions and their clarifications, what are the areas where you find gaps that need to be addressed?
In terms of sensibility or in terms of process?

Sensibility...
What I ask them to understand is that ki intent kya hai. Don’t see things in suspension. Out of context aap koi cheez dekhenge, usske maayne apni tarah se aap nikalenge. But the intent of the storyteller is very important while holistically seeing the film. The camera’s intent could be objectification or portrayal. You can clearly see that, and you know when your intent is just to objectify. I will give you an example of a girl who is a police officer, and the camera is constantly, you know, caressing her body or portraying her body in a way which only reduces her to a body. It is gross disrespect to a woman in India —imagine, who fights so much to get education, then fights to get into a service like police, and is in a dignified uniform. If even then if you only see her as an object —that’s something which concerns me.

And these are things which are very fine. It can’t be communicated over one talk. You constantly interact with the people, this whole workshop thing which we are doing, and which we will be doing again, and we plan these workshops in various other regions —in Chennai, in Kolkata, in Hyderabad, in Trivandrum. We are planning to do this, more interaction with the board members because see, on one hand you have got regular staff of the CBFC, and on the other hand you have the board which has more of people who are from the world of art and cinema. So, it’s important that they spend time and understand each other’s point of view. Art is constantly evolving, sensibilities are also constantly evolving.

The judiciary has been on a liberal trajectory, with the verdicts on adultery, on Section 377, on Sabarimala. As a country, we have been opening up on at least some questions that we are not comfortable with earlier. On the other hand, something as simple as a WhatsApp video forward has caused much stress, sometimes violence and sometimes deaths. How do filmmakers, and certifiers, balance the line between ‘anything goes’ and the fallout of controversial content?
Society has a collective conscience. Things don’t change overnight. I feel ye kehna ki jaise hum kehte thay ki kya cinema samaaj ka darpan matr hai? Is it only a reflection of the society? Or is it also shaping the society? It’s both — it reflects the society and also shapes the society. You can’t just say it is purely reflecting the society. And also, sometimes cinema goes a step or two ahead and makes certain points. And also starts the debate in people’s head. It’s a two-way process. It’s constantly shaping. In every sphere, what is acceptable for society’s collective conscience is not easy to decide.

The thing is that you push it when you feel that your society is not ready to accept it because eventually you understand there’s commerce is related to it. When commerce is related, especially to cinema, you cannot just say that I want your share of wallet, but I don’t like your share of voice. With the share of wallet, the share of voice will come —you’ll have to respect that. Because it’s a commercial world, you are seeking the share of wallet, so you’ll have to respect the share of voice as well.

Would you say that the trust level between the CBFC and the filmmakers has increased in the past year or so?
I would say that. I would believe that. That’s for the filmmakers, for them to say, but I feel it being part of the industry as well, I feel, yes. I feel that they want to listen, and I want to listen. I feel that there was a dialogue.

Well, at least fewer cases seem to be going to the FCAT in the last few months.
Yes, that’s true.

How relevant is certification/censorship for cinema at a point of time when the content you can watch online is close to completely uncensored?
If you understand human psychology — you would know that collective viewing is a very different experience, a very different experience from personal viewing. And that is the reason there are certain things you might not find that offensive individually, but in collective viewing, you start finding them offensive because the person sitting next to you is not comfortable. These are the things which need to be understood. It’s not easy to take a broad stroke and say, everything should go, this is a free world. That kind of thinking —it’s not nuanced. I think it’s layered in every country’s culture, especially India. India is a very unique country- so many languages, so many intricacies of cultures. And they all cross-fertilise, intermingle.

At a personal level, are any of your equations in the industry impacted by you having to work with the industry as an adjudicator?
I have not been brought up in the industry in any case, waise bhi main aa gaya industry mein bhatakte hue. Ab aisa nahi ki mera ki main yahin pala badha hoon. I know people and they respect my work. You know, I think the fundamental thing is that I came to the industry because of my work. They know that he has a job to do. My reputation is of that kind —I have always been very professional in my projects. I have never ever missed a deadline. I have always tried to go beyond my job description to make sure that I deliver to the best interests of the film that I was working on. Now, I am playing a role where I have to strike a balance, and I think most of the people who have experience of working with me, have respect for me, would know that I will try to do this also sincerely.


‘CBFC-film industry meeting was iconic and a constructive beginning’

Divya Kaushik (BOMBAY TIMES; November 3, 2018)

In September, a two-day meeting and workshop, held under the guidance of CBFC chairperson Prasoon Joshi, was attended by CBFC board members and representatives of Hindi and regional film associations like Indian Motion Pictures Producers’ Association, Indian Film and Television Producers Council and South Indian Film Chamber of Commerce.

It was apparently after 25 years that the CBFC chairperson had held such a meeting. CBFC member Vani Tripathi Tikoo tells us, “Apparently, the last time such a round table discussion happened was when Vijay Anand was the CBFC chief and he had met representatives of film associations. But even then, it was only Vijay Anand who had met them and not the board. This meeting was a two-day affair, we had a board meeting and we had a workshop with the panel members, the actual people who form the examining and revising committee for films, to understand their point of view and to have deliberations on what sensitivity we should keep in mind while certifying film and how the changing narrative of Indian cinema should be kept in mind. Meeting the representatives from the film industry was iconic. This is good and a very constructive beginning to bring them on board because you can’t just meet for one hour and expect them to understand what the board feels. Even when we talk about the board, there are various segments, zones involved and we all got to meet together.” She added that mainstreaming the discourse with the film industry was the biggest USP of such a meet. “We are very happy and it is a welcome decision on the part of chairperson. This is an iconic moment for the CBFC that we sat across the table and started the dialogue. It is a constructive one.”

Talking about how an initiative like this will help in strengthening the relationship between the board and the film industry, Vani said, “I think this is going to be a game changer. At the end of the day, both parties need to be on the same page. Certifying has always remained an issue and we met representatives from different film bodies to understand that there are various levels of sensitivity involved when you are making a film, whether it is socio-political or rights of various communities, including the minorities. They had a lot of observations and inputs to give us, which was of great value to us and we also had some things to say to them because there is a deeper level of understanding which needs to come. Most people don’t understand that we certify more than 18,000 films in a year. It’s not a joke, and this process is also human resource related.”

One point that Vani feels should be a part of such meetings is the objectification of women in cinema. “One thing which I always speak about is objectification of women. Filmmakers will have to realise that it is non-negotiable as far as the CBFC is concerned. There is a great responsibility on the part of the board to decide that we will not negotiate on women objectification, we never have, we never will, at least this board won’t, and that is how it is,” said Vani.

BOMBAY TIMES (August 18, 2018)

"You may become an ex-PM but never an ex-Poet,” Atal ji apparently quipped at one time. It’s simplistic to separate the poet and the politician of his persona. The fact is that they walked in tandem. Both poetry and politics were an indelible part of his consciousness. He was not a recluse poet. He may have enjoyed his moments of solitude but he kept his poetry connected with the spirit of the times.

Many people say that the Poet dominates his Politician, but that would be a uni-dimensional assumption. He is much more than a Poet, much more than a Politician. In fact, he strongly believed that poets and writers would only enrich politics.

If you notice, in a poem, he may have started on a low or despondent note but he sought to surpass that. Classically, a poet necessarily mayn’t resolve an issue, just simply share the angst or ignite a realisation. Atal Bihari Vajpayee didn’t just share his pain or an observation or experience, he tried to find meaning in it and was conscious of the fact that he can’t leave one suspended, so he held the reader’s or listener’s hand and pointed towards a direction, a resolution.

Somehow, I have felt that the hope in his poetry has a unique tenor, a kind of a responsible hope. He may not have, as an individual, felt particularly hopeful at a given time, but he felt responsible to transmit hope, for the larger good. He would have written poems like a poet would, but in many places, one can see the reflections of the political responsibilities he carried, he was mindful that he was talking to the nation.

Let’s not forget he could not be like an activist poet or point fingers at the system or tarnish the power structure. He also was the power, he was also the system. And this aspect put him in a tight spot. But I have always believed that such are the unique vantage points of life, such are the authentic voices which reflect a complex artistic life tenor.

So, if there is a dilemma, a contradiction, a tension found in his thought, it makes Atal ji’s poetry a lot more unique.

I was fortunate enough to have spent time with him, hearing him recite some of his work, and also more fortunate to have him recite words written by me in speeches on some key events. His warm hug post hearing the words: “suraj ko main nigal gaya” (I swallowed the sun) in my song Roobaroo (Rang De Basanti), is one my most cherished memories.

To carry the tradition of hope forward, I instinctively penned down some thoughts as a tribute, based on one of my personal favourite poems written by Atalji –