“My films are about society, the system, and politics,” said Prakash Jha as he spoke at the ongoing New Delhi World Book Fair, which is themed on Republic@75. The filmmaker, known for films like Gangaajal (2003), Aarakshan (2011), Raajneeti (2010) and Jai Gangaajal (2016), stated that while all his films involve politics, he will never make a film on just one politician. “Jo satta mein hota hai, main uske saamne khada hota hoon, uske saath nahi. All my films have politics, but I’ll never make a film about a politician,” he added.

Talking about why he chose to be a filmmaker, Jha said, “I found everything in films – it has science, arts, psychology, country and society. What you want to say, what you want to imagine, what you want to create – films have all that. Jo future mein hai, jo kisi ne nahi dekha – films ke through aap sab keh sakte hain. I always had that clarity.”

The filmmaker contested at the Lok Sabha elections in 2004, 2009, and 2014, but could not win. Talking about why he chose to contest, he said, “Active politics was never my aim. I contested the elections because I wanted the job of a Parliamentarian. I wanted this job because year after year, especially in North India, maine dekha hai kuch Parliamentarian hote hain, unko apne wajood ka ehsas hi nahi hota. Election jeet zaroor jaate hain, lekin people’s representative ban kar kya kar sakte hain, yeh bahut saare Parliamentarians ko nahi pata.”

He added, “Hamare Parliament ke adhikansh (maximum) log kahin ek haazri (attendance) mein sikud jaate hain. Lekin jo asal kaam hota hai, woh kar nahi paate. Toh mujhe laga, usi wajah se yeh naukri mil jaye.”

He mentioned that he had set a time frame for himself. “Maine socha tha ki main 10 saal tak koshish karunga. But you can’t have that the job of a Parliamentarian unless you win the elections. If there was a UPSC exam to become a politician, I would have definitely appeared for it and worked really hard.” 

Hinting that his next project will focus on voter’s choice of politicians, he added, “But why does a voter choose a politician? There are certain parameters for that. My next film’s story is most likely about that parameter.”

Marking his full-fledged acting debut with M Gani’s Matto Ki Saikil, Prakash Jha plays the leading role of a daily-wage labourer who loves his rusty bicycle. In a bid to slip into the skin of the character, Jha spent several days in Mathura and also interacted with daily wagers to actually get a job. Jha tells mid-day, “M Gani has lived in Mathura and understands these characters. Coming from a small town, I have also known these characters. I was surprised and happy to get the chance to play this part.”

Having attended acting workshops across the globe, Jha says he is aware of the importance of learning the nuances of the craft. “Matto was not an easy character to nab. It’s not difficult for an actor to physically look the part, but I had to change my persona too. I am known to play characters that are tough, and strict, but to become a subservient, meek man like Matto, needed work.” 

Jha spent several days with daily wagers, observing how they wore clothes, and smoking bidis with them. “Just before we would roll, I would go to their spots, watch them for hours, and wait for somebody to pick me up [for employment]. I got picked up twice, and did the job for a couple of hours. I didn’t use soap for two months as I wanted the dust to settle on my body. I stopped using the air conditioner too.”

Juggling both worlds of acting and film-making, Jha establishes that few can understand the pulse of a film as well as a director. After putting in the effort to conduct workshops, and understand the nitty-gritties of the role, he says he ought to follow his director’s vision. “If I am directing, and some great actor comes in and tells me how to take a shot, I will put him in his place. So, I must give the same liberty to my director, because it is his vision.”

Matto Ki Saikil features both, professional actors from local theatres of Agra and Mathura, as well as non-professional artistes. “Before M Gani made this into a film, he used to stage it as a play in Mathura with these actors,” he says, elated that this crucial project on his resume will enjoy a theatrical release. “It’s a pure story about that part of India where people toil throughout their lives. They build our homes, roads, flyovers, and atomic plants, but we don’t know how they live. It takes a pandemic for us to realise that there are crores of people who are working like that.”

On Monday, a notice was issued to Bobby Deol and Prakash Jha by a Jodhpur court in a case filed against the MX Players’ web series Aashram for its controversial depiction of Hindu godmen. The next hearing is scheduled for January 11. However, show producer-director Prakash Jha, who is currently in Patna, is already gearing up for Chapter 3 of the show, after bringing out the first two in quick succession. “The first two parts were shot together and then released in parts; the new season will be an actual Part 2. This time, we will be focusing on the downfall of Baba Nirala, who rose to such prominence in the last season,” he informs.

Dismissing the controversies miring the show as “normal”, the filmmaker points out that they were the work of people with vested interests—many were involved in the business themselves, and yet others who believe in godmen. “So, of course, they would be offended. When you make something that affects the masses, a polarised reaction is to be expected,” asserts Jha, relaying how the notice is because the police refused to register a FIR, since they felt it was uncalled for. “They then went to a district court who directed the cops to reply on why they weren’t taking it into cognisance.”

Reasoning that he only created a fictitious character, but now everyone thinks it’s real, he adds that no Hinduphobic sentiments are being propagated on the show as is being claimed, there’s no mention of any religion, and the disclaimers state the same. He avers that the numbers are proof that people loved the show. “They kept rising, but I was really surprised to see it cross the 1 billion mark. From this I gauged that people love to watch such content; I can’t imagine why though!” he laughs.

The filmmaker was approached by the digital platform with a 50-60 page story, written by Habib Faisal. “During my research, all of which is in the public domain, I learnt how these organisations function, and even those who go there exploit such places to absolve themselves of their sins. I had to sift through a lot of mundane stuff to explore the relationships these self-proclaimed godmen have with women, police, investigative agencies, politicians, the youth, and also drug cartels,” he shares.

Jha is currently looking forward to the US premiere of Matto Ki Saikal, which has him in the titular role, at the 17th Annual South Asian International Film Festival (SAIFF). It premiered at the 25th Busan Film Festival earlier. Comparing the film to Do Bigha Zamin and his own Damul, he complains that such films are not made anymore. “My character is the sole breadwinner of a family of four, and relies on his 20-year-old cycle to get to work every day. When that starts to break down, his livelihood as a daily wage worker is threatened,” he narrates, adding that though it was made in pre-pandemic times, the film touches on the irony of how daily wage workers, who built expressways connecting cities, were the same ones who had to walk all the way home because the country was in shutdown.

The National Award-winning director has another film, Dharamkshetra, in the pipeline. Ask him if he’ll also be calling the shot on that one and he shoots back, “After Jai Gangaajal, I’ve decided not to direct a film I am acting in, so, I am going to just be on screen in this one too.”

Filmmaker-actor Prakash Jha is happy that his film, Matto Ki Saikil, in which he plays the title role, was screened at the 25th Busan International Film Festival on October 23. The movie was seen by the audience in a theatre, apart from patrons who joined the screening virtually. However, the director admits that he is disappointed that he couldn’t be present to interact with the audience there. “I am heartbroken that I couldn’t attend the festival, but I’m delighted that my film premiered at the Busan International Film Festival and was seen by people in a theatre. The fact that it opened in a theatre makes me really happy,” he says.

Matto Ki Saikil revolves around a daily-wage labourer and his cycle. “Without this cycle, his family might have to skip a meal as he relies on it to make it to work. The film explores the lives of those people in our country, who despite so much progress, have to negotiate their way through life for their basic needs. Documentary filmmaker M Gani from Mathura had approached me with this story and I was taken aback when he told me that he wants me to play a mazdoor, who sits on the mazdoor chowk every day to find work,” says Jha.

He further adds, “I also loved the story because it reminded me of my early films like Damul (1985) and Parinati (1989). The character is completely opposite of my personality, and it was difficult for me to find him within me.”

The film was shot a year ago when we weren’t living either in the time of a pandemic or a migrant labour crisis. Talking about the coincidence that Matto Ki Saikil delves into their lives, Jha says, “Today, it finds more resonance because we have seen the plight of migrants up close. When the migrant labour crisis was raging in the country, I could understand their pain and feeling of homelessness. It’s difficult even to imagine that someone had to walk 1,500 kms to reach their village. When I was travelling to Patna during the Coronavirus pandemic to see my father, I saw some migrant workers walking from Thane towards Patna. It shook me to my core.”

His is the face of a violent irrepressible voice - that is bold and barefaced. He doesn't talk to pontificate, like pseudo intellectuals who want to give the right sound bytes. Rather his words bite. To those un-immunised to his mutinous cinema. One that is raw, sordid and 'bloody' real. He tells the truth through his stories. In his style. Torn tapestry and all; rustic and starkly Indian. Prakash Jha, the 10-time National Award-winning filmmaker is a masterclass at vacuuming the gloss, yet, making the fabric of his movies shine. In his office as earthy as his films, he tells us about the upcoming Jai GangaalJal, and how he is confused about what Hindi cinema really represents. His phone rings, and a film distributor at the other end asks him if his movie has an item number. He says, “Main film mein acting bhi kar raha hoon, main hi item number kar deta hoon.“ It sets the tone of our conversation...

What urged you to revisit the drama on the relationship between the police and society?
It was a dramatic requirement. I revisited the Gangaajal territory again after 10 years because I know that society is changing and the political-social strings which hold it together, are undergoing a drastic movement. I was on a flight to Raipur, and coincidentally, the man sitting next to me was an illustrious cop from the Maharashtra cadet who I've known for years. During our conversation, I learnt that he has moved on from an active police position, to the vigilance department of a government financial institution. I was curious to know the reason for this change. He turned to me and said, 'Hindustan mein ab policing nahin rahi. Nowadays, the police acts if somebody wants it to act, and stops if someone wants it to stop.' He told me that today if an honest cop wants to get hold of a gunda, in spite of knowing the truth, he can't arrest him. The moment he does that, more trouble ensues; from politicians and activists, to people in positions of power step in and the matter gets diffused. In the police department...kuch karo toh maare jao, na karo toh maare jao. When I made Gangaajal (2003) the dictum was that every society gets the police it deserves. Today, according to me the dictum is efficiency is crime, inaction is virtue. And no, this film has no scope or space for an item number (laughs).

Do you think people react differently when a woman in uniform is in power?
We are at a time when everyone is talking about women's empowerment, and a society in which women are leading the way. Khaki is considered to be mardaana. In the police force, female cops wear the same uniform. In this film, Priyanka Chopra mardaana naukri mein aake bigde hue mardaano ko motivate karti hai. She is tough as nails, but at the same time she doesn't lose her femininity, or use a single cuss word. I don't know if people are aware, but female police officers are always addressed as 'sir' by constables. They are never called madam. Sometimes, they are even called 'Madamsir'. In the film, my character also refers to her like that.

You are making your acting debut in Jai GangaaJal. How was it switching between roles - of a director and an actor?
Ever since I made Raajneeti (2010), I have been thinking that I needed more to keep myself interested and challenged. I have been preparing actors for years, so I am well versed with the process. Even while I am acting, the director in me never shuts down. I could be in front of the camera and shooting the most difficult scene, but I give the call for action, enact my scene and say, 'cut'. I am aware of all that's happening in between and everything that the camera is seeing. Also, I don't like directing on set, I never tell my actors how to play out their parts. I focus on how the scene is being blocked and shot. Direction to me is like driving a car. You don't have to prep to drive; it is a natural, automatic process. Once I was shooting an intense scene with Priyanka, I said 'cut' and asked her if the shot was okay. She looked at me and said, 'It's your job to look at my shot, not my job to look at yours.' (laughs)

Politics never ceases to intrigue you...
Yes, it is in my blood. I am Bihari, no. We, Biharis, are genetically manufactured for politics. We think politics, we talk politics. Even a Bihari rickshawallah can talk about Barack Obama. Personally, I am interested in observing and connecting facts about what's happening in our society, and then assimilating that information to make stories. I never have a story ready, it happens while I start writing what I have observed and emotionally connecting with it.

In the past, you have contested Lok Sabha polls from Bihar. Any political aspirations, now?
None! Cinema is politics for me. The moment you get into human relationships, there is politics. When I see a relationship between a man and a woman ­- there is an undercurrent of politics. If we want to do anything with human management, there is politics involved. Even managing your own self is politics. In our life, there are days we are truthful, days when we are tactful. Politics is a part of our everyday life.

I believe that you are inclined towards regional cinema.
In regional cinema, there is latitude to experiment a lot, as it is story driven. Hindi cinema has become very demanding; in the sense, it's become more like nautanki. I am confused about Hindi cinema, pata nahin kis cheez ko represent karta hai. There are filmmakers who make films on history and other meaningful stories, but largely, I don't know what commercial Hindi cinema really represents. There are stories that are based here, but shot in Europe, on some islands and yahaan wahaan¸ but it doesn't connect. Well, over all I am sure it manages to entertain with good songs, locations, great bodies and all those good-looking things.

You make cinema for pure entertainment, or do you want to bring a change in society and the system through your movies?
I make movies to entertain, and not for social reform. If I want to do that, I will do politics and give updesh to people. My films have a message because I am talking about some social issues through a powerful story. The boys and girls in my movies don't talk about wealth and business, but their conflict is on bigger ideologies. I think my films are comedies, because often what politicians say is also comical. Isn't it? Look at what's happening...just yesterday we were talking about intolerance and today we are talking about another issue. What Shah Rukh Khan says becomes an issue, and then what Aamir Khan says becomes a bigger issue. Anupam Kher jaake morcha le jaa raha hain. Ho kya raha hain, yaar? Hum toh chal rahey hain. It's all part of the growing society. All of us can say what we want to, and we can protest about what we want, even if some people don't like it or agree with it. For me, my cinema is my voice. How do you register a protest just by returning an award? How will the common man understand all of it? Aapko award mila hai wahi samajh mein nahin aata hain, return kya karoge tum.

What are your expectations from the Union Budget for the entertainment industry?
I have no expectations as they don't care about this industry. They have not bothered to do anything as far as taxation or benefits for workers in the industry. I have spoken to concerned people, but it's no point, they just walk away from it. I guess, our representation on that platform is also not competent; at least that's what they have proven so far.

The Censor Board of Film Certification (CBFC) has upset one more filmmaker with its arbitrary demands for cuts and beeps. While Rajkumar Hirani was allowed to retain the word 'saala' in the title of his next, Saala Khadoos, Prakash Jha has ben asked to beep it out wherever it is used in his upcoming film, Jai Gangaajal. The offensive word incidentally figures in Chairperson Pahlaj Nihalani's infamous cuss list.

Ditto 'ghanta' and a few other gaalis. The Revising Committee asked for 11 cuts for a 'U/A' certificate, which if applied across the film would add up to 50-odd and change its very texture. “How many beeps can you have in a film?“ the National Award-winner fumes. “Saala is a word we use in everyday conversation. My cop drama is set in the hinterlands. I'm not saying anything anti-national or anti-religion. I'm a responsible maker who would never hurt anyone's sentiments. There's a need to look at the context in which a particular word or phrase is used. If a villain is saying something and is immediately taken to task for it and not glorified, they should let it go.“

The Examining Committee couldn't arrive at a consensus on certification. “I was told that two members wanted to give it an 'A' certificate with several cuts while two others were ready to give it a 'U/A' with minimal cuts. The matter was referred to Pahlaj Nihalani who asked me to send it to the Revising Committee. He sat in the screening and headed the committee. While several members appreciated the film, I was offered a 'U/A' with 11 cuts which wasn't acceptable. There is no rule saying certain cuss words cannot be used,“ he reasons.

Jha argued that the original Gangaajal, which released in 2003 and was full of violence and cuss words, had been passed with a 'U/A' certificate and only one word muted. Even back then the BJP had been in power with Ravi Shankar Prasad as the Information & Broadcasting Minister. “It has been telecast on TV over 300 times since and no one has objected to the language,“ he points out.

The RC also objected to one remark about a woman. Jha points out that his protagonist is a woman, a cop, who's in uniform 99 per cent. “There's no overt sexuality or unnecessary violence. They wanted me to reduce an action scene by 50 per cent, I'm okay with that, but not okay with the language being diluted. I'm going to the Tribunal hoping they will see things in the right context. Else, I'll move court. One mindset has created all this absurdity,“ he grouses, adding that his socially relevant drama has a message for youngsters and an 'A' certificate would cut them out.

Will the new committee, headed by Shyam Benegal to oversee the working of the CBFC, change things? “It's a relief to filmmakers but I personally have always been against any kind of censorship.“

Speculation is rife about the casting of the leading lady of Gangaajal 2, a heroine-centric project. And names like Aishwarya Rai and Priyanka Chopra are doing the rounds...
I'd love to work with Aishwarya and Priyanka but I haven't approached any one yet. I've appointed a casting director but I'm travelling till the end of the month. So, I will start speaking to actors only in December. It'll roll in January.

Buzz is, the character has a real-life muse...
Well, it is not entirely her story. But yes, I have drawn from the experiences of a young IPS officer posted in Madhya Pradesh. Since she's a woman, the people around her, including the DSP, the inspectors, sub-inspectors and constables thought they could manipulate and bully her. But she put the house in order though she was harassed, penalised and her career was threatened.

Will her identity be revealed?
No, she's still a part of the system, fortunately higher in the hierarchy today. Her story inspired me to craft Gangaajal 2 with a woman protagonist but she is not the only inspiration.

Like?
I'm intrigued by Gopal Goyal Kanda, the former Home Minister of Haryana, who was arrested when airhostess Geetika Sharma named him in her suicide note. He was a real estate broker who became the Home Minister and had the entire police machinery under him. Gangaajal 2 revisits the nexus between politics and the police after 12 years.

Has anything changed in these years?
A lot. In Gangaajal the dictum was 'every society gets the police it deserves'. Now, that has changed to 'inaction is virtue and efficiency is a crime'. Today, a cop would think twice about arresting a criminal because he knows he will have to contend with local goondas, corporations, politicians, questions in the legislative assembly, NGOs, the media, and if he escapes all these, then the judiciary. Twelve years ago, you'd approach a cop when in trouble. Today, you are scared if the police turn up at your door.

Did Raajneeti 2 emerge from the ever-evolving game of politics?
Yes, who'd have imagined two years ago that the BJP would return to power at the centre? I already had a story about a political family whose only surviving male member has left the battlefield and a woman who has come from outside picks up the baton.

So, Katrina Kaif will topline the cast. Will Ranbir Kapoor and Ajay Devgn also return in the sequel?
Ajay's character, like Manoj Bajpayee's and Arjun Rampal's is dead. I don't know if Ranbir's character will return. Katrina's Indu is now the Chief Minister and Raajneeti 2 will start with her. Then we'll have other family members coming in.

Will it draw references from real political families like the Gandhis?
Well, there will be some parallels. Remember how Rajiv Gandhi reluctantly became the PM, then lost in the next elections? His story is the tragedy of some good people who enter politics.

Your third film, Satsang, is about a godman. Right now there's one in Haryana, Rampal, defying the police who want to arrest him.
My film is about what happens when spiritualism becomes a business, a means of earning unimaginable wealth playing on the fears of ordinary people. I've drawn from Rajneesh and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar to the gurus in Gujarat and Haryana--the good, the bad and the ugly. I completed the story three years ago and am waiting for Ajay to finish his film so we can roll with it.

All three are controversial subjects which could leave you open to legal harassment and post-release bans.
I will say what I have to, and face the problems if they come. I did it during Raajneeti, Aarakshan and Satyagraha and if I have to, I'll do it again.

You are also producing three other films, Crazy Cukkad Family, Lipstick Waale Sapne and Fraud Saiyyan, which are comedies. A change of genre for you?
(Laughs) Don't forget that I directed Mungerilal Ke Haseen Sapne, a comedy. I enjoy them. I can direct one film a year but I can produce five-six. I back good content.