You know they are ageing in reverse when you see Kay Kay Menon and Vinay Pathak looking dapper in their chic attires, as they sit down with mid-day to chat about the upcoming show, Special Ops 2, helmed by Neeraj Pandey. Calling them versatile is an understatement, considering their vast body of work and how they seamlessly become their characters — Himmat Singh and Abbas Sheikh, respectively. While they are yet to watch the show, the two actors confidently tell us that they are already blown away by the filmmaker’s expertise in “weaving fiction and making it almost seem real.” Excerpts from the interview:

Kay Kay Menon: It was ready six months back. We were just waiting for the JioHotstar merger to happen. Almost two-and-a-half years ago, we had finished season 1.5. So, this bit of wait time is expected, especially for a show of this massive scale.

Vinay Pathak: Not really. You get calls selling insurance or credit cards every now and then, but we know now [to be careful]. We haven’t been a victim yet. It makes you wary, but you cannot be panic-stricken about it all the time.

KKM: It’s as worrisome as your house getting burgled on one fine day. The aura around the risk depends on how much you amplify it. The lock was invented to keep thieves away, but they found a way out, so we moved to digital locks. It’s the same thing here — anything that is technology-oriented, it’s always possible for someone to break through. You eventually find devices to curtail it.

VP: It feels fantastic to be a part of [something] this big and exciting. The best is that it is really thrilling. Sometimes, I can’t believe that I am an integral part of that madness.

KKM: When I saw the trailer, I was blown away by it.

VP: I think that is best answered by Neeraj Pandey. But I think he is very good at weaving fiction and making it almost seem real.

KKM: The new thing came with the script, of course, which I cannot reveal. Ultimately, it all depends on the writing, and Neeraj is brilliant in that department. So that was taken care of. Each time I come for a new season, the only thing I look forward to is to see what he has done now. That’s the most exciting part for me as an actor. As for Himmat Singh, I know him now quite well, since we’ve also done his backstory.

VP: I know that I am going to read a new story with the references of what has already been established. It’s always exciting to read how and what story we are telling this time.

KKM: We are both theatre actors, so we usually do everything in one take only. It is not a threat to us. It is, in fact, very good because a certain continuity is maintained that you need not induce later for a different cut. So, I don’t think that is a problem. It is all well-rehearsed.

VP: Hasn’t it spoken for itself? OTT has been around for a while and it’s settled now. I think we love to keep these theories of theatres being affected afloat.

KKM: I believe there’s always a correction that happens. You have an inflation and then a correction. When television came in, everybody thought that cinema was done because no one was going to go to the theatres, but nothing happened. For some time, everyone had that fear, but it settled. I don’t think theatrical releases are going anywhere. Yes, the format and the way people view it might be different, but it will correct itself to cater to that audience. You will have to up the ante a bit while making [content], understanding that there are two different kinds of people who watch it. The same person becomes a different individual when he is watching something on OTT, and I can guarantee that person will not stand up and dance to Sheila Ki Jawani after watching it on OTT. [In theatres], it’s a mass psychology that happens. It is a party syndrome, so even if you don’t know how to dance, you will also shake your leg. As long as makers understand that and cater to it, [it will work].

VP: Hum jo kaam karte hain, woh accha hi hota hain. We don’t sit and wonder, ki woh jo kharaab kaam kiya hain, uske baarein mein log humse kya kahenge [laughs]. Our intentions are always good; we want to do a decent and honest job. That is how we look at all the jobs that one has been a part of. It’s an honest approach to how we go about our work.

KKM: Oh, that I won’t reveal — why should I?

VP: All the time, that is the excitement. We do discuss it a lot with our shrink.

If Kay Kay Menon features in a project, it features in our watch-list. And if it blends his acting prowess with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s much-loved work, Sherlock Holmes, it’s a no-brainer. That explains why we’re looking forward to Shekhar Home. The Jio Cinema series reimagines the iconic detective in the setting of 1990s India. Playing the famed detective can be a big draw for any actor, but Menon says it was the story’s adaptation that attracted him deeply.

“I normally don’t go with inhibitions at all. I go with an open mind [when approaching] any script. This story is set in a sleepy town called Lonepur in the 1990s, without telecommunication, mobile phones, or Zoom meetings. It felt so good while reading it that I was transported to that era,” says the actor.

Helmed by Srijit Mukherji and Rohan Sippy, the mystery series also stars Ranvir Shorey, Rasika Dugal and Kirti Kulhari. Over the years, there have been many adaptations of Doyle’s detective series, including the hugely popular Sherlock, fronted by Benedict Cumberbatch, and Robert Downey Jr’s Sherlock Holmes (2009). Didn’t the fear of comparisons cross his mind? Menon says he embraced the challenge without falling into the trap of comparison.

“That is a trap. If I think like that, then I would never be able to perform. Benedict Cumberbatch is not playing Shekhar, right? Nor is Robert [Downey Jr]. I am playing Shekhar. I don’t look at it from the prism of something that has already been done. Otherwise, every love story would seem like Romeo-Juliet and Heer-Ranjha. I go with the principle that this is a unique script and given to me only, and I need to do justice to it.”

Holmes’ biggest strength is his power of deduction. The actor is quick to admit that he doesn’t have his subject’s observation skills. So, he embodied the character by gleaning out his other characteristics from the script, even letting the fictional town’s mood influence the role.

“I found that there’s a certain pace and rhythm that Shekhar sets, irrespective of the situation that he is in. I also represented Lonepur, that sleepy languid nature of the town seeping into this person. I let myself be; the mannerisms and body language happened. I don’t design as an actor. It’s all slightly transcendental.”

He adds that the production team had to carry out extensive recces before finalizing Bholpur and Haldia in West Bengal as the locations for the fictional town.

What added flavour to the story is that it was helmed by Sippy and Mukherji, each bringing their distinct voice.

“Their voices are very different. Srijit has a stereophonic voice, while Rohan has a softer voice. They are a powerhouse of talent and know how to go about a story. When I was doing Special Ops, I worked with both Neeraj [Pandey] and Shivam [Nair]. I love seeing the jugalbandi. Cinema is the most collaborative art possible.”

With the growing popularity of OTT platforms in the country, the content being churned out for the medium has also multiplied, starting a conversation whether quality is being sacrificed in the race to be ahead in quantity. But actor Kay Kay Menon doesn’t see any red flag at the moment. Rather, he feels that the digital medium is full of exciting opportunities and has given actors like him their due.

“It (the good and bad content) is a part and parcel of anything that we do, be it any medium,” says Menon, whose career has found a new lease of life through his work on web, especially the character of Himmat Singh from the Special Ops universe.

He believes that any medium can be misused, but that as long as OTT makers are conscious of the content, then there’s nothing we should be afraid of. Here, the actor brings up the role the audience plays in maintaining the sanctity of the medium, calling them intelligent.

“You can’t bluff them by giving them a few dances here and there. You have to be very sure of the content that you are providing. That’s also because mass psychology doesn’t work here, which works for mainstream cinema. As a result, you will always find more good content on OTT,” adds the 55-year-old, who described how OTT viewing is synonymous to reading a novel individually.

However, that doesn’t mean there won’t be any adulteration. “But (in case there is adulteration) people will reject them immediately. The audience has the button in their hands. More good content will be available at any point in time. On OTT, one can’t survive by producing less quality content,” he stresses.

It has been almost three decades since Menon embarked on a journey to make a name in Indian showbiz, and has received recognition for performances in films like Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi (2005), Black Friday (2007), Gulaal (2009), Shaurya (2008), Life in a Metro (2007), Haider (2014), and Baby (2015) — but he feels he is just starting to get his due — all thanks to the OTT.

On the web medium, he has proved his mettle with The Great Indian Dysfunctional Family, The Last Chapter, Ray and Special Ops, with fans calling him ‘desi Bond’ for his avatar as an agent, Himmat Singh. “I have been in the industry for the last 26-27 years, and people who were four or five when my initial work was released, are adults. They are watching my past work now. And it is quite a revelation for them that an actor can perform like this,” he says with amusement.

Further, he adds, “They go back and watch your work in retrospective. Even youngsters are watching shows, like Special Ops 1.5: The Himmat Story, and getting to know about your journey, and complimenting you, that ‘this actor has potential’,” he adds with a laugh.

And these are some of the instances through which he derives motivation. “The web platform has revived the interest of the audiences in actors like me and Manoj Bajpayee. And that’s such a good thing,” says the actor, who is enjoying exploring the digital world.

He has a lot of projects he is working on. “But I am not allowed to talk about them, I will talk about it once I get an official go ahead,” he wraps up.

From marketing to acting... how did the transition happen?
I had some misleading ambitions earlier, which were more or less like desires. I had these false ambitions - marketing and MBA. I didn't do very badly at it, but I realised my calling was something else. So, one fine day, I decided to drop everything and take a plunge into acting. I have no complaints.

How was your experience shooting for Haider in Kashmir?
This was my first visit to Kashmir and it's an intriguing place. Switzerland is no match to what I observed. It's truly a paradise. Shooting over there was tough in terms of environment and conditions. Autumn was fine, but winter was severe. We had the highest recorded snowfall last year in the past 20 years. It was great fun. Snowfall looks great on screen, but if you are living there for 30 days and see snow every single day, it can get a bit depressing.

How far have you gone to prepare for a role?
I follow the same yardstick or training process for all the roles I do.Unless it is a historical character that requires some research, I don't do research outside the script.

You've done a lot of grey roles. What is it about them that attracts you?
I believe I have played people, they might be the wrong kind of people, but I have played people. I don't play roles. Roles are extremely finite, but human beings are infinite. The script beckons me. Every acting is internal. External acting is hamming. You have got to dig deep into your own spectrum while playing a character. If I am playing evil, believe me, I am bringing out the evil from within me. This is basically my approach.

Any movie that is close to your heart?
There are about 12 films from the ones I have done that have a shelf life. There's Paanch, Sarkar, Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi, Mumbai Meri Jaan, Shaurya, Sankat City, Life In A Metro, Haider, Gulaal, Black Friday and Honeymoon Travels that I quite enjoyed. I believe that cinema should be made for posterity and not just for a three-day business.

Who is more romantic between you and your wife Nivedita?
I guess the romantic decorum is maintained by my wife. For me, it's more to do with intent than manifestation.

What's a typical day in your life like?
I ponder a lot. I like to be by myself, probably because I have been a single child. You are left to your own devices from the start.

Any message for your follo'ers?
I'm no guru. I am humbled by the appreciation I get. Every actor looks forward to it. I'm pretty happy about the response to Haider for the simple reason that I am getting to see a mature side of the audience who I guess is deprived of quality cinema. I was happy when they liked Paan Singh Tomar. It is possible to make mainstream cinema with content. The problem is escapism. Don't fear your mediocrity so much that you muscle your way through money power.

Kay Kay Menon, 47, may not have shirt-tearing fans, but he is highly respected for his craft as an actor. He is emotional and sensitive and likes to live in his own cocoon. While he does not have materialistic ambitions, he would do anything to play a good character on screen. He is a man of his own convictions and considers Naseeruddin Shah his unofficial guru when it comes to acting. Over a cup of coffee, ahead of his upcoming Vishal Bhardwaj film Haider that he is extremely proud of, he talks to Bombay Times about what made him choose to lead the life of a pauper, his loving wife Nivedita and why he admires Aamir Khan as an actor. Excerpts:

How did you come into films?
I was born in Kerala, where my maternal grandparents lived, and stayed there till the age of one, after which I came to Maharashtra to live with my parents and moved all around the state with my father, who worked as a superintendent in an ordnance factory. My mother was a housewife. I studied at a convent in Pune. So while my English was good, my Hindi was very bad till we moved to Chandrapur at the edge of Maharashtra and MP, when my Hindi, too, became good. I finished my graduation in Physics and then did my MBA from Pune University. I started working in advertising. That was my lowest period, as one month into it, I felt doomed as I didn't think it was my place and did not know what to apply for next. I was really depressed. I started my little shop, making corporate films. I had held those false aspirations in advertising that were ill-founded, as I didn't know what I wanted to do but right from the age of nine, I had been on stage doing theatre. I remember my first role as a sunflower at nine. In every school play, my teachers would kind of scramble for me to be in them and I found freedom on stage. I felt bound by everything else. One fine day, I realised that advertising was not my calling. I closed shop and plunged into theatre. I found out where certain plays were being rehearsed and found Naseeruddin Shah's Motley group to be doing Julius Caesar. I landed up there and met Naseer. He told me, 'We are two months into rehearsals and there is no space for you, but you can hang around.' So I hung around. I was positioned in the crowd somewhere amongst 70 actors. But yet, it felt good. I had decided to lead a life of a pauper by choice and not by chance, drinking tea and smoking cigarettes, going without food many a time. I had a group of friends who I stayed with in Santacruz, who were interested in the arts and it used to be a routine with us that we would do loud readings back in our room, where one of us would read and the rest would listen. So Russian literature got consumed. It was quite enriching an experience, despite living like a pauper. My first break in theatre came with Feroz Abbas Khan's Mahatma Vs Gandhi, where Naseer played Gandhi and I, his son Harilal. The play got rave reviews. That's also a time when I got close to Naseer. He is my unofficial guru. As the theatre doyen, Pandit Satyadev Dubey would say, 'The paradox of acting is that it can't be taught, but it can be learnt.' So that's what I did with Naseer. I kept learning. My first exposure to the big screen happened with Saeed Mirza's Naseem. I had been doing theatre with Makarand Deshpande, who would take me everywhere, wanting people to notice me. He had his personal ambition to make it for me. I then did my first proper film Bhopal Express with Mahesh Mathai.

Who do you love the most in the world?
My mother and my wife Nivedita.

What are you like?
I like the fact that I am not a narcissist by nature. Narcissism is self-love at its extreme. That is my good and bad quality. The bad quality is that if you are not narcissistic in nature, it is a problem in our profession as self-love is a necessary criteria. Everybody likes to talk about themselves and be seen around, apart from the screen. Perhaps, I could be a little more social, but being a single child right from my childhood, I have always relied on my own devices.

Apart from acting, what do you enjoy doing the most?
I love playing sports. One, it mentally cleanses your system. In sports, you can never become a star till you perform on the field. And if you score on the field, then you can reap any amount of benefits. Frankly, my life is not consumed by the film industry. So I take my work very seriously, but I don't take myself very seriously. I find it ridiculous to pontificate and I don't bear any grudge. I would hope that certain sanctity towards cinema is still kept. I find two kinds of things happening today, cinema and non-cinema. A collage of good things can't be good cinema. You can't play lawn tennis with a cricket bat. I have great respect for marketing. I think it's a very creative job just as making a film is, but the problem is that one tries to bulldoze the other. Both these departments need to be kept mutually exclusive. I have a problem when marketing tries to get into the creative process of storytelling.

What kind of films do you consider examples of a good balance between good marketing and good cinema?
Paan Singh Tomar, Lage Raho Munna Bhai, Queen, amongst many others. The genius of Rajkumar Hirani, where you have content and everything falls correctly in place. If you are a refrigerator manufacturer and I am a marketing person and I come and say give it a little microwave effect here and a washing machine effect on the other side, a refrigerator does not remain a refrigerator anymore. So while I would still be marketing it as a fridge, in reality, I have destroyed it. I feel the so-called big blockbusters are examples of those, where the microwave oven may be the item song. It is not cinema anymore and is just a collage of many things put together. There are some mandatories in acting. One, you need to surrender your ego to it. While roles are finite, characters are infinite. The person that you are playing i.e. if I am playing Dinesh the cop, I am playing Dinesh and not the cop. The cop is only for the designation and the appearance. People often play roles, not people. If you do that, you will automatically be different as each person is different and surrendering your ego is so much essential for that. But today, tripling your personal ego on screen is called acting. There is nothing called external acting, which means that all that you act has to come from within. Each actor has that spectrum within him. I can understand when you research for historical characters, but why research for fictional ones as you land up doing mannerism shopping in that case.

An actor you admire?
I respect Aamir Khan a lot. He contributes a lot to cinema. I don't think Delhi Belly or a Peepli Live would have got the eye balls it got, had he not contributed in the way he did. Also, he makes a lot of difference to the screenplay. You take the directors who have worked with him and see how then they have worked without him, be it in Lagaan or Rang De Basanti, and you know the difference.

Talk about your wife Nivedita?
She is also an actor and does theatre and TV . She understands me the best. I love the fact that she can be blunt and say things on my face and the fact that she puts my life in order. She does not do it like a duty, but she does it out of love. She doesn't like my scattered brain kind of living. I have a tendency of letting my mind travel a lot rather than me travelling all the way. And she gives me that space. Life needs to have some eureka moments for me. I try not to hurt people and I am gentle. What's beautiful about her is her tonality, where she is able to speak her mind and yet not hurt anyone. If I were to do that, I would have landed up hurting people.

Talk about your mentor Naseeruddin Shah?
As a human being, ever since I have interacted with him, I have only learnt. He is a fun guy and I like the fact that he is a moohphat. He has absolutely no false airs about himself. I remember we had to once perform Mahatma Vs Gandhi for the President of India at Rashtrapati Bhavan. So we all went in a bus there. We entered the first security gate, got down and had our checking done, then the same thing at the second gate. By the time we reached the third gate and were asked to do the same drill once again, Naseer blew his top. He said, 'Who the hell does he think he is? Hum koi bhaand nahi hain.' Suddenly the security guys came and everything was in order. And that did not come from any ego, but it came from deep self-respect. Had he been a man of ego, he would have been a different man today. If somebody has invited you to perform somewhere, whoever he may be, you don't make life difficult for him to enter your house. We ultimately reached inside, where the whole cabinet had come to watch and suddenly from outside I heard someone shout, 'KK. Come here. Go there.' I went outside to see who was shouting taking my name and discovered that there was this dark handsome sniffer dog whose name was also KK. I landed up shaking hands with him. Naseer doesn't suffer fools and is brutally honest. He is often a misunderstood man.