Joe Russo and Anthony Russo. Pic/Getty Images

As the first 22 movies come to a close with Avengers: Endgame, Joe Russo talks about the end, his association with the Marvel Universe, protecting the plot, the action and his favourite superhero
Letty Mariam Abraham (MID-DAY; April 7, 2019)

"You have eight minutes with Joe Russo," said the publicist who handled the Avengers: Endgame director's Mumbai visit. As an ardent viewer of the superhero franchise this was panic mode, considering all the things I wanted to know. As the trailer of the film hasn't revealed much, one can't stop wondering — will all the Avengers come back to life, why has Captain Marvel stayed away from the fight this long, will any more Avengers die, what outcome did Dr Strange see in the 14,000,605 possible endings of which the Avengers emerge victorious in just one? — But he wouldn't answer any of these questions as the Russo Brothers are extremely secretive.

As fan theories around the franchise emerge every day, Joe Russo says that his brother Anthony (co-director) and he are obsessed about keeping things secret. "We work very hard to keep the secrets. My brother and I are obsessive about it. We protect the scripts; so, none of the actors have actually read the real scripts of the film. People only read the scenes they are in. The trailers and promotional materials are heavily guarded. They only go through my brother, me, and Kevin Feige [producer] at Marvel," he says and reasons it out as the need to give audience the film experience he enjoyed as a child. "I grew up in an era where we did not have the internet, and so, secrets were never spoilt. That's what I am used to and I want to provide that same experience to the audience."

The Russo Brothers directed four Marvel movies in six years — Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014), Captain America: Civil War (2016), Avengers: Infinity War (2018) and now Avengers: Endgame — and each one has been bigger than the last, especially, the end. The Winter Soldier featured a massive fight between Chris Evans (Captain America) and Sebastian Stan (Winter Soldier); The Civil War had a faceoff between Iron Man and Captain America, and in Infinity War, the Avengers united tried to face Thanos in the ultimate battle, or so we thought. Joe explains that action requires a lot of discipline. "It's a disciplined and meticulous process to create an action sequence. It requires imagination, to dream up really inventive and interesting set pieces. The most important part of it is to define character and storytelling through the action. The human brain can only take about 30 seconds of unmotivated action before it starts to shut down. To keep the audience engaged, you have to keep shifting, so that it illuminates a character, or storytelling points."

However, with over 20 characters in a three-hour film, one wonders how the director-duo manage screen time for every actor. And he casually explains that the final work comes after months of story iterations. "My brother, me, Christopher Markus, who has written all the Marvel movies, sit in a room for months on end, with cards on the wall of every character, and we just try iteration after iteration to unlock the right story that we all want to tell. It requires a lot of hard work and focus."

For fans who already know, and for those who are still discovering the franchise, it's not news that the makers deviate a lot from the original comic books. According to The Infinity Gauntlet comic book, Thanos destroys half the universe to prove his love for Lady Death, the physical manifestation of death in the universe, who is also seen in Infinity. In the film, Thanos tries to bring balance to the universe with his own twisted logic. Joe defends the changed plotline in his film because he wants to give "motivation for the villains".

He says, "Marvel Cinematic Universe is not the same as the Marvel Comic Book Universe. We have to make choices that are very different from the books. We try to find motivations, especially in our villains, that modern audience can relate to. And we wanted to find something that had to do with the preservation of resources. Even in the warped point of view that Thanos has about destroying half the life in the universe to preserve the other half, it shows his motivation. We thought it was an interesting concept because obviously, we are standing at the precipitous of our [bleak] future with issues like global warming, and depletion of natural resources." While this is the end of the Avenger series, it's definitely not the end of the Russo Brothers' association with Marvel. "We are going to go on a vacation for a bit. We have done four of these movies in six years, so I think [we need a break]. We will be back at some point," concludes Joe.

Renuka Vyavahare (BOMBAY TIMES; April 3, 2019)

It cannot get bigger than this. “I am not going to answer any questions on the plot of Avengers: Endgame. It took me three years to protect it from Tom Holland and Mark Ruffalo, so I am not going to suddenly give it away,” jokes American filmmaker Joe Russo, of the Russo brothers, co-director of the year’s, perhaps, the decade’s most awaited superhero film — Avengers: Endgame, in a candid chat. This is his fourth Marvel film and the twenty-second film in the entirety of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). In Mumbai, to kick-start the film’s promotions, Joe spoke to Bombay Times on Indian influences in the Marvel series, his comic-book fixation, Stan Lee, Robert Downey Jr (RDJ) being nothing like Tony Stark, need for diversity, longevity of superhero films and more.

This is your first visit to India. Take us through your experience so far.
I have never been here before, so I came with an open mind. I am ecstatic. One of the real values of getting to work on these films is that you get to travel across the globe and interact with people from different cultures. I am a big fan of telling my children that their job in life is to collect as many fascinating experiences as they can. Part of that is travelling, cultural experiences, understanding the world and becoming a global citizen. It’s really meaningful for me to get my family here.

Are you familiar with Indian cinema?
I have seen a few Indian films like Dabangg. I think Indian audiences will love the fact that Robot/Enthiran (S Shankar’s 2010 bilingual starring Rajinikanth) was almost a big influence on Avengers: Age of Ultron, 2015 (directed by Joss Whedon). There is a sequence in Robot, where all the robots come together to form a giant snake. In the Avengers movie, there was a bunch of Ultrons, who come together to form a giant Ultron. The scene was eventually cut for time, but that was a direct influence from Robot.

You have made four Marvel films in the past six years. What do you think is integral to the future of superhero films?
The more diverse they get, the more interesting they become. Everyone has a right to see themselves on screen. Audiences become more passionate, when storytellers get more inclusive. The next phase of Marvel movies will get more diverse. Look at the success of Black Panther and Captain Marvel. The new crop of stories will have more pure global influence.

During an interview Tom Hanks told us that because of the rich technology and CGI, superhero films are living up to the promise of comic books. But eventually, the tide will turn. The stories that always remain with you are the ones showing human condition.
These (superhero films) are human stories! They are highly relatable characters. Listen, I think that if it’s not your cup of tea, you tend to shutout. For a whole global generation of film goers, these movies have become very important. They are a part of their growing up years and pop culture. The best of these movies tell compelling stories about humans, who happen to have powers. The powers are secondary to the experiences of characters as people and the choices that they make. I think the best of these movies have incredible thematics in them. I don’t necessarily think you can call superhero films a fad, when it has this kind of global reach. I think you just have to respect the fact the audience finds a lot in these films to inspire and connect them.

Speaking of #Whateverittakes (the punchline of Endgame),what does it take for you and Anthony (the other Russo brother co-directing the film) to work with so many superstars on one film?
It takes a lot (smiles!). It’s been a great experience for us. We have been very fortunate that this cast is incredible. Look, Oscar winners show up just to do one day’s work for your film, so you are spoilt as a filmmaker with the love of your cast.

You hear things like Robert Downey Jr wanting multiple vanity vans. He even jokes about it. He seems like a diva. Is he like that for real?
He jokes about it (laughs!), but you know why he does that? I think it is to play along and create a persona. He acts like a diva, but he is actually the hardest working actor you will ever work with. He is exceedingly professional. There is a reason why he is one of the biggest movie stars in the world. The energy and effort he puts into his work every second and the way he approaches his character and believes what it is, the way he shows up on set everyday, the level of intensity he brings to his work ethic — it’s commendable. Even when he promotes his films... that requires a lot of effort. He has a certain effervescence about him that’s universally translated and it comes at a cost. It requires him to project himself a certain way.

Tony Stark feels like RDJ’s alter ego, Chris Hemsworth exudes Thor’s confidence in his physical strength... it’s amazing how these characters seem like they are based on the actors that play them.
It’s interchangeable, isn’t it? You want the actors to have an emotional connect with the characters they play. When you really get to know Robert, you discover that he is nothing like Tony Stark. He has a public persona that he slips into, which is like Tony but when you have an intimate conversation with him, you realise he is very different. He is warm, genuine and generous human being. Chris Evans relates to one of the important people from his childhood. He based Captain America’s performance on this man he knew, so that’s very personal. They all find a certain sense of themselves in these characters after playing them for so long.

Is this Chris Evans’ last film as Captain America? He had hinted about it.
Chris Evans said this is his last film? I don’t know what he has been drinking (smiles). Impossible to say, anything can happen. This is the Marvel Universe. I won’t give away the plot, except that Infinity War was told from the point of view of Thanos and this one is not.

The legendary Stan Lee is no longer with us. It won’t be the same without him, isn’t it?
I wouldn’t be where I am today if it wasn’t for Stan Lee. I grew up on his comic books since I was 10, he is my idol. I believe that his final cameo is in this film. To get an opportunity to not only work on the material that he created, but to be able to work with him was a dream come true.

What are the pros and cons of co-directing with your brother Anthony, being part of a joint venture?
The pros are the fact that we have been able to make four Marvel movies in the last six years without dropping dead. There are no cons. Of course there are conflicts. We are always arguing and that makes this process successful. We challenge every idea that comes to the table and the best idea wins. It’s about maintaining the right balance between pushing against each other and backing off. Out of that comes a chemistry that creates these movies.

The superheroes abstain from sex. There was an interesting article on this that recently went viral.
No sex in Avengers movies? There was a bedroom scene in Infinity War, which implied that. But I think it is about the demographics. These movies need to translate with the children as well as they do gravitate towards these movies. The whole family should be able to enjoy these films without having to put hands on their children’s eyes. At the core, the characters are human and their psychology has been the focus more than their sexuality I guess.

What’s next for you in the MCU?
Eleven years of storytelling, nine franchises and 22 movies culminate into this film. Now, I want to take a little break. We have made four films in six years. You need to find the right stories to be able to reach the audience on this scale. It has been an enriching experience for us.

Joe Russo, one half of Russo brothers, on their second outing with Avengers and how TV served as prep for directing the superhero franchise
Vijayeta Basu (MUMBAI MIRROR; April 2, 2019)

In 2013, Steven Spielberg, the king of blockbusters, predicted the implosion of the superhero movie genre in an interview. Over the last few years, the term ‘superhero fatigue’ has been bandied around the internet. All this doesn’t faze Joe Russo, one half of the directorial duo of the Russo Brothers, who is visiting Mumbai to promote the 22 nd film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Avengers: Endgame. “I don’t think it is a trend. This kind of serialised storytelling in film, it is a new form of narrative,” he shares. “People have grown up with this franchise—it has elicited emotional reactions from them and they have shared it with their families and friends. That’s why it’s the dominant form of storytelling right now,” he says, adding that superhero films have kept alive the tradition of watching films in a movie theatre a little longer in today’s world of digital streaming.

Russo, however, is completely fine with the changing times. “This is the future, and I think every generation deserves to tell stories the way they want to tell it. Movies have had a great run for a hundred years, but technology is changing all that, with the advent of AR (augmented reality) and VR (virtual reality). We are talking to companies that work in those fields and are trying to define what that would mean when it comes to storytelling—it is fascinating where technology can lead us,” he says.

Turning away from the future and venturing into their past, we ask how they went from working on hit comedy shows such as Arrested Development (for which they won an Emmy award) and Community to landing smack in the middle of the action-packed and dramatic universe of Captain America (their first MCU film being Captain America: The Winter Soldier in 2014). “We didn’t want to be comedic filmmakers really, the first movie we wanted to make was actually a drama, but we couldn’t get it financed,” explains Russo, sharing that Marvel approached them as they were comic book geeks who were “very passionate” about superheroes stories. Russo does concede that working on TV shows prepared them for undertaking the last two films of the Avengers series. “Making content for TV is the hardest thing in the world for a director because it is a constant grind. It is for months on end—you are prepping, shooting and posting at the same time, as you are doing episode after episode. This absolutely prepared us.” Citing Joss Whedon, Judd Apatow and JJ Abrams—all directors who have worked in TV and delivered blockbuster films—Russo explains that TV prepares a filmmaker to handle volume and stress, both of which are present while making superhero films such as Avengers.

Another stressful factor for the Russo Brothers is to avoid spoilers from leaking out—especially when the whole world wants to know how the Avengers saga comes to an end. “People get mad at us sometimes for obscuring facts in trailers and misdirecting them, but it’s the only way to keep information from getting out,” he says, sharing that even the actors didn’t have access to the entire script. He jokes that Tom Holland (aka Spider-Man), who is notorious for accidentally slipping spoilers on social media, got only three pages of the script. “There are only a handful of people who know what happens in the movie. Hopefully, it releases three weeks from now with all its secrets preserved”. While still tight-lipped, he does share that “audiences should prepare themselves for a really emotional ending”.

After Endgame, the Russo Brothers will be done with Marvel movies for a while, but not with their actors. Chris Hemsworth features in the Sam Hargrave-directed Dhaka, which has been written by Joe Russo and was shot in India last year. The brothers will then direct a film called Cherry, a true story about the opioid crisis in the US, featuring Tom Holland. “We grew up in a big Italian family and we treat the cast and crew as family. We like to work with the same people because it creates shorthand between us. Also, it is always fun to hang out on the set, go for dinners and just laugh about things together,” Russo concludes.