Abhishek Chaubey hasn’t had a film play out on the big screen after Sonchiriya (2019). The director has been happy dabbling in digital entertainment with a segment in Ray (2021) and the web series, Killer Soup (2023). But now, the big screen is calling out to him.

“I am currently writing a period thriller,” he reveals, hoping to take it to cinemas. “I have also written a show, a thriller [that explores] a social phenomenon. It’s set in Bihar. Now, I am at the mercy of the streamers,” he smiles.

As he flirts with the idea of returning to the movie halls after over six years, the director is aware that a lot has changed in the theatrical space. Chaubey notes that the big screen has become synonymous with spectacles, leaving little room for small films to survive.

“We are only making tentpole films. We must find a way for the middle-of-the-road films to have a well-marketed release and make sure that the audience goes to watch them. We have to find our mojo again,” he insists.

Citing the example of his debut film Ishqiya (2009), Chaubey points out how small films would find an audience 15 years ago.

“Ishqiya was a small film, but Chandan theatre [in Juhu] ran housefull. Even a film that didn’t work at the box office would make enough money so as to not break the production company. Now, the star and marketing prowess of a big film, coupled with expensive tickets, are completely killing small films. Earlier, the audience that watched mainstream movies also watched a Gulzar or a Shyam Benegal offering. That was our culture. Today, that culture is dead.”

Sometimes, you just want to sink into your seat with a popcorn tub, and watch a feel-good movie. Vidya Balan says Do Aur Do Pyaar is that movie. At a time when the industry is churning out action fare on the big screen and dark thrillers on OTT, rom-coms have been few and far between. “This is a genre I’ve missed,” starts the actor, who, with Pratik Gandhi, leads director Shirsha Guha Thakurta’s rom-com.

“I was wondering why people aren’t making such films anymore. I am so bored with the content around me. There is too much action. When the film came to me, I loved the idea. I watched the original, The Lovers [2017]. Shirsha gave our film a new direction and Supratim Sengupta wrote the script, playing it differently [from the original]. This film makes me laugh and fills my heart. I wanted to go on a long drive, listening to music with Siddharth [Roy Kapur, husband]. Enough of pointless maar dhaad and diabolical people! I want to be in movies where I am enjoying, and so are my audiences.”

Do Aur Do Pyaar sees Balan and Gandhi play a long-married couple, who are happy in their extra-marital relationships until they find themselves falling for each other again. Balan’s Kavya as a woman with agency struck a chord with her.

“Kavya and her partner have an equal marriage. I related to the fact that she is stubborn and angry; she is not apologetic about her affair. Her predicament was funny, but I played it with a hint of curiosity. She is scared, confused and stuck.”

Often, female characters in Hindi cinema are one-toned. Rebellious parts are becoming predictable, too. Balan, who has built a 19-year career on fascinating characters, from The Dirty Picture (2011) to Kahaani (2012) and Sherni (2022), says we need to delve deeper into a woman’s complexities.

“In films, there is either the bitch or the bechari, but I’ve never done films [with such black-and-white parts]. Women-led cinema is in a nascent stage here. Ishqiya [2010] was an aberration for its times. It has been 14 years, but the grammar is still being formed. It will get formed, broken, and reformed. It’s time to reimagine the women we are writing. I think more films are expanding the idea of a badass woman now. Even with women-led cinema, it’s important we take ourselves less seriously. Crew was fun and not necessarily nuanced, but we had a good time. That’s enough at times.”

It’s impossible to think of Maqbool without Irrfan, but few know that the actor was not the first or even the second choice for the role. Filmmaker Vishal Bhardwaj shared, “Ek actor ke liye toh Naseer bhai ne bola tha ke tumhe goli maar doonga (laughs).”

After the recent screening of Maqbool at an event titled ‘Irrfan: A Retrospective’, filmmaker Vishal Bhardwaj and Naseeruddin Shah shared many such anecdotes from the making of the film, which clocked in 20 years on January 30, and spoke about their association with the actor, who passed away in April 2020.

Remembering his first meeting with Irrfan, Naseer said, “I met him for the first time when he was rehearsing for a play with Ratna (Pathak Shah). People had told me that he liked me a great deal. When I was introduced to him, he was very matter of fact, there was no fawning. Like everybody, the first thing that struck me about him was his eyes. He had absolutely amazing eyes. I had no idea of the depth of his range. There couldn’t have been a better choice to play Maqbool than Irrfan. Personally, he was very affectionate towards me, and I was very fond of him, but we didn’t meet very often. So, I can’t say that we were close friends, which is something I missed out on, but I continuously admired his work and his attitude towards it.”

Vishal said, “During Maqbool, we were all discovering ourselves. Naseer bhai supported me a lot and did many workshops. The thing about Irrfan was that he was so effortless that at times, you would feel he hadn’t prepared for the scene at all. He understood the silences in the script so well. Dosti, dosti mein saara kaam ho raha tha, aur lag raha tha ke kuch special ho raha hai. We were grappling with many things, jaise ke paise kam the. Film release hone ke baad jo reaction aaya tab realize hua ke bahut extraordinary kaam hua hai.”

Talking about Irrfan’s brilliance as an actor, Naseer had once said that he envied him. Elaborating on that, the actor said, “He always seemed to be performing so effortlessly, never did I feel, while watching him perform, that he was straining for an effect or trying to make an impact. My feelings about his movies are uneven. I haven’t liked them all, but there has never been any moment of falseness that I have detected in Irrfan’s work anytime. I wasn’t being modest or anything; I genuinely meant it when I said that I envied him because I know that at his age, I certainly was not that capable or had that much of an understanding of the craft of acting.”

During the evening, Vishal played a song that Irrfan had sung and sent him during his cancer treatment that brought everyone to tears. The filmmaker said, “Irrfan had a great sense of humour. Even when he was unwell, he would make fun of the doctor. He had caught the doctor’s gestures and would mimic them. Sutapa would keep scolding him ke tameez se baat karo, tumhara ilaaj kar raha hai. Har baat mein Irrfan ka… Main toh andar se toot gaya hoon, kyunki aadha lagta hai Irrfan ke bina. Jab bimar the, tab mujhe messages bahut bhejte the aur gaane bhi gaake bhejte the…”

When asked if he would make any changes for better performance at the box office, Vishal said, “This reminds me of an actor who, after reading the script, said that the hero is a loser (laughs). No box-office success can match the pride that it gives me now.” Is there is anything he would change if the film were made today, Vishal said, “The only thing I would change is bring Irrfan back, but that isn’t possible.”

Reflecting on the relationship they shared over their many collaborations, Vishal said, “Abhishek Chaubey ki ek film thi Ishqiya, uske pehle Anurag Kashyap ki ek film thi No Smoking. Both the producer and the director wanted me to be associated with it, toh maina apna naam de dediya. That movie flopped badly. After that, when we started shooting Ishqiya, Irrfan told me that he had given away all the dates meant for Ishqiya. He said, ‘Aapki film toh flop ho gayi, toh mujhe laga aap toh aage banaoge nahi.’ Toh mein bahut gussa hua, aur hum dono ki do-teen saal baat bandh hui thi.

Phir main jab 7 Khoon Maaf bana raha tha, I was unable to cast for the part that he eventually played. When I called him for it, I told him that I had a small role for him. He said, “Aap jo bhi bolenge main karunga, mujhe toh aapko manana hai.” Par jab editing ka time aaya, toh woh role kaatna pada. He got angry.”

He added, “For Haider, when I spoke to him, tab unhone kaha ke pehli shart yeh hai ki jo part kaata tha 7 Khoon Maaf mein usse YouTube pe release karo. Maine kaha theek hai, par aaj tak woh nahi mila. Haider ke waqt unhone kaha ke main paise bahut loonga tumse, kyunki tumne mere saath yeh gadbad ki thi. I said the role is yours and the money is also yours because I knew nobody could play the Ghost. After the trial of the show, he said, ‘Agar aisi entry deni thi toh paise kyun diye?’”

Irrfan’s wife, Sutapa Sikdar, and son Babil were also present at the event. Sharing her memory of Maqbool, Sutapa said, “They were shooting the film in Bhopal, and I was pregnant with our younger son Ayaan. Suddenly, the doctor said that I might have the child. So, Irrfan rushed back, once he reached here, he started speaking to Ayaan, ke bahut nuksaan ho jayega Vishal ka, tu aisa mat kar. And the child actually seemed to have heard him. He was born two months later.”

On Wednesday evening, Vidya Balan, Nandita Das and producer Guneet Monga Kapoor came together to discuss the subject of women’s representation in Hindi movies at an event titled Lights, Camera and Time for Action: Recasting Gender Equality Compliant Hindi Cinema. The School of Media and Cultural Studies, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai, presented a research which analysed 25 box-office hits of 2019, along with 10 women-centric films that released between 2012 and 2019.

Vidya, Guneet and Nandita were also joined by Shibasish Sarkar, President, Producers Guild of India, Mike Hankey, US Consul General, Mumbai, and Prof Shalini Bharat, Director – TISS (Tata Institute of Social Sciences). The quantitative and qualitative study that was presented at the event was supported by a research grant from the US Consulate Mumbai.

- 72% of characters in the analyzed films are played by cis-males, 26% by cis-females, and 2% by

queer actors

- 36% of box office hits and 100% of women-centric films passed the Bechdel test (which tests if a work of fiction portrays women in a sexist manner)

- Women in employment and in public domain work are shown in films, however, the work roles they play are gendered, with a greater presence of women in healthcare, education, entertainment, and journalism

- The most popular skin tone for women characters is fair skin and body type is thin for lead characters and medium for all other support characters

- Women-centric films have greater diversity and explore inbound subjects dealing with relationships, sexuality, motherhood, and other sensitivities

I don’t see why it’s a bad thing if women directors are hiring women technicians & women-heavy crews. Eventually, that will percolate into male-led films also. I have seen that change with movies like Mission Mangal. I am seeing more women DOPs and editors. We need to look at the person for what they bring to the table and not judge them by their gender

In the early years of my career I was playing roles of the romantic interest. It wasn’t satisfying; I wanted more substance. I felt like I wasn’t contributing anything, I was sleepwalking through some of the roles. Ishiqiya set the ball rolling, it was the role of a woman who had agency. I felt reborn as an actor

When there will be more women storytellers, writers, cinematographers and producers, then slowly, it will start showing in the kind of complexities we give to women characters. The portrayal of men has also been controlled for the longest time by men

Anecdotally, we may feel we are far better than where we were, but the research and statistics show us that we have a rather long way to go

I absolutely miss a group of producers who are doing independent films. I have seen a lot of them give up after producing one or two. Having produced more than 40 independent films, I think there is a need to have more female producers

I think women are incredible at multitasking and are generally able to run the world better. We are beginning to have a conversation, be more aware and build a safer space

There’s joy in finding a director who nudges you out of your comfort zone, pushes you to find the gumption in you. For Vidya Balan, Suresh Triveni could well be that director. After bringing the charming Tumhari Sulu (2017), the two have switched gears to tell a hard-hitting story in Jalsa. “Suresh has pushed me out of my comfort zone with this film,” smiles Balan.

The actor is one of the fierce voices in Bollywood who doesn’t shy away from a brave story, but she admits that she was taken aback by her character in Jalsa. “Here, I delved into the grey zone the way I have never done before. When Suresh narrated the story, I wasn’t sure I wanted to do the film because it required me to embrace the grey shades. Like Maya Menon [her character], I want to be seen in a certain way. There has been an inner goodness to the roles I have done so far. Even Maya Menon is a good person, but you don’t know how you’ll react to a certain situation until you are confronted with it.”

The Amazon Prime Video offering revolves around a news channel investigating the hit-and-run case of a young girl. While Shefali Shah plays the victim’s mother, refusing to give up until justice is delivered, Balan plays a noted television journalist keenly following the case. The actor had initially turned down the role, but the pandemic made her do a rethink. “The pandemic changed the way we look at ourselves and life. I felt ready to do Jalsa then.”

A Balan film assures you of certain things — a powerful story, honest performances and strong women at its core. The actor, over the past 16 years, has played a key role in propagating women-led films. She is happy to see the shift in terms of the roles written today. “When I did Ishqiya [2010], there were many so-called female hero films. It has been changing slowly. Now, the roles written for women treat women as people, and not in the context of or in relation to the men in the story. They are getting more nuanced.”

KAHAANI (2012) & KAHAANI 2 (2016)
Kahaani was the mother of all stories. It was a tricky role to play because people had to believe Vidya Bagchi was a certain person till the revelation at the end after which they see the character in a different light. This meant I had to know the script extremely well and yet retain the spontaneity of someone who doesn't know what's happening. I'm glad Kahaani 2 is coming four years later because there is no pressure of expectations and I could approach it as a new film.

Durga Rani Singh is not Vidya Bagchi. Actually, this was the title of the film Sujoy Ghosh and I were supposed to do immediately after Kahaani. I had to opt out because of health reasons. Sujoy who loves the name suggested we name my character in Kahaani 2 Durga Rani Singh and I immediately agreed because it signifies the power of Durga and gives the film a distinct identity. Its not a sequel, we're only taking the franchise forward.

The mother-to-be is now a mother wanted for the abduction and murder of her daughter. I used to be terrible with kids earlier, the Hey Babyy baby would see me and start crying. When I was filming Kahaani, my sister was pregnant with twins. Today, Ira and Ruhaan, are like my own children. I would do anything and everything in the world to keep them safe and happy. I guess interacting with them has helped me play a mom this time around.


THE DIRTY PICTURE (2011)
Silk was far removed from the person I am and redefined liberation for me. To be that physically uninhibited, you have to be free. Silk thought she was sexy, totally bindaas. She didn't care what people thought of her. And when she did, it was the beginning of her downfall.

I'd land up at director Milan Luthria's office with so many questions and he'd run away. Only one thing he kept telling me was not to judge Silk for the clothes she wore or the fact that she slept around for roles. “If you judge her, everyone else will. If you accept and respect her, so will they,“ he'd urge. I followed his cues and by the time we shot the scene where Silk's trying to make a comeback, all her tires were on display. I could do it easily because I'd lost all consciousness of my body. Silk was bebaak, so am I. The Dirty Picture liberated me, helped me express this trait on screen.

NO ONE KILLED JESSICA (2011)
No One Killed Jessica was a biopic of sorts with me playing Sabrina Lal. Raj Kumar Gupta (director) didn't want me to meet her because her sister Jessica Lal had been shot 11 years earlier and the fight for justice had made Sabrina a stronger person. He wanted his Sabrina to be more vulnerable, like she was before the rude shock of Jessica's death. This was the first time I was playing someone so diffident... Someone who didn't talk much but expressed herself through silences... Someone who slowly comes into her own. That was my biggest challenge playing Sabrina.

ISHQIYA (2010)
Ishqiya's Krishna was a small-town, sari-clad woman who played these two men (Naseeruddin Shah and Arshad Warsi), using her sexuality unapologetically to get to her husband who'd wronged her. I was going through a rough patch and had started wondering if I was fit for this profession. Ishqiya reassured and reconnected me with the actor within. Krishna, sensual and manipulative, was like a snake. You never know when it'll strike, quietly.


PAA (2009)
I thought R Balki was joking when he first narrated the story to me and told me he was expecting me to play Mr Amitabh Bachchan's mother. I had my reservations but eventually I let the actor in me take over and gave him the nod.

In Hindi cinema, particularly Mr Bachchan's films, the mother has been glorified by the son as a holier-than-thou goddess who makes the supreme sacrifice. For me the challenge was to play this mother as a regular person who wants to do the best for her child who's been diagnosed with a medical condition called progeria which ages him before his time. I had make Dr Vidya real, that was the key of Paa for me.

Balki put things into perspective on the first day. We were shooting this scene where the boy, Auro, is clamouring for pickle and he said, “This is a situation you've dealt with all your life, we're just shooting it today.“ That put a full stop to any kind of drama.

PARINEETA (2005)
The fact that this is my first film will always set Parineeta apart. Even though it was set in the '60s with our imagination lending the era a certain lyricism, Dada (director Pardeep Sarkar) saw Lalita as someone very real and would give me cues to stir something in me so I'd react in a way that was believable.

Lalita was someone who embodies love. Unlike the really young Lalitas of the earlier films, our Lalita was 24 and not 16, yet feels the intense flush of first love even though neither Shekhar (Saif Ali Khan) nor she realise till their accidental marriage just how much they mean to each other. For Lalita in particular, everything he says or doesn't say, does or doesn't do, affects her. Love makes this usually strong girl vulnerable, almost fragile. It also defines her, as love is the core of her being.

One of my favourite actresses, Meena Kumari, who for me embodies sensuality and melancholy, had played Lalita in Bimal Roy's Parineeta. Fortunately, I only saw it after the release of my film else I might have been influenced by her and veered away from Dada's Lalita who was a woman and yet retained a certain girlishness that was endearing.

Did you know that the team of your next film was recently shooting on the very highway in Bulandshahar where the infamous gangrape happened?
I wasn't part of that shoot but that's eerie.

The campaign you are doing for the government - building toilets in each home in rural India - is in a sense a women's rights issue. Half the crimes in villages happen when the girl is a mile away from her home.
Absolutely. From whatever I have read, a lot of rapes happen when girls go out to defecate in the open - early mornings, late nights. It's so depraved, even the thought of it. It's just sick. That's why the government is focusing on getting the message across. And in my experience, I think the awareness has really spread. Everyone is talking about building toilets. But I get conflicting reports from people, and I think mindsets have not changed and there are infrastructural issues.

I was tying three things together ­ - the shoot on the Bulandshahar highway, the cause you have taken up, and the role you are playing in your next film, which is of the madame of a brothel. The police says that 90 per cent of crimes against women are within the house. So, while we look at brothels as this exploited area, sometimes you might think that the girls there are safer than some in their homes. But the middle-class India is so moralistic about what happens in an 'immoral' place like that, and so quick to cover up what happens inside homes.
Absolutely, which is why most child sex abuse perpetrators are within the family. Most of the times, within the family, it is so difficult to believe that this is even possible. The debate of legalisation of prostitution has been going on for centuries. Having said that, none of those prostitutes are doing it out of choice. They are doing it out of lack of choice. Yes it is transactional, but I don't think it is a fair deal. What comes to them is very miniscule. So, in that sense it is exploitative, but it is not either or. I don't think one is a lesser evil than the other. It (prostitution) is more open so there is no pretense about it. Finally, whether war or rape, it is all about appropriating another person's space. The physical, bodily space that you occupy is your space. And even that gets invaded, someone's mindspace. Yes, evils are happening within homes and people probably find it more difficult to talk about because the perpetrator is a family member. I read about this girl from Dubai, who was being abused by her father and the mother didn't know at all. When she got to know, she made sure that the father didn't know that she knew about it, and she managed to get her daughter to Mumbai, and filed a case. But she knew that would mean that she was also alienating her side of the family. Ki apne pati ke baare mein chup bhi toh baith sakti thi, ya talaq le sakti thi, case karne ki kya zaroorat thi.

From Meena Kumari to Rekha onwards, we have innumerable movies on the tawaif and the kotha. But we will never make a movie on incest. Is it because the 'it's all about the family' track breaks when you do movies like that?
I think these are the truths that everybody wants to run away from. Our films are not as aspirational as they used to be, up to the 90s or early 2000s. It is less escapist now, but you still don't want to be confronted with that reality in those two hours. Things that make you really uncomfortable. I had this friend in college, who I felt was being abused by her father. But I couldn't get myself to ask her that directly. Because you also feel like you are crossing a line. What if it is a figment of your imagination, because it is so blasphemous. The very idea of it is so indigestible. Much later, when I spoke to some other friend, she also said that she always felt the same. Because the way she spoke about her father was very, very strange. God knows where she is and I hope she is okay.

Neither television, nor cinema, not even documentaries, nothing takes up this topic at all.
So, you know, all sorts of things are happening. Gender politics is very complicated. Someone was telling me about this case in the corporate world. There is so much awareness about sexual harassment, but there is also a very thin line. You can say anything, and it can be held against you. There was this person who got thrown out of a job because he said 'I want to jump into bed now.' And he meant that he is really sleepy. And the girl had a bone to pick with him. Now, I don't know what the truth is, but I have known this person for a really long time. And you can sense things in people. You know instinctively how a person is. Though in the case of child sex abuse, a lot of times you can't even believe how a person can do something like this.

While on one hand, women's legislation has come to quite strong levels where men are often held to be guilty until proved innocent, on the other hand, what happens inside closed doors, no matter how gross it is, there is a certain degree of social immunity. In the corporate domain, you put a finger on somebody, to push someone away in a crowd, and suddenly it becomes molestation. Two very different lines being followed.
I might sound absolutely politically incorrect when I say this, even if it is tilted in the favour of women, finally it is tilted in the favour of women! There will be times when it is misused, but at least that voice is being heard. Unfairly sometimes, but it is high time. It is high, high, high time.

Sometimes when people say that Delhi is the rape capital, that there are so many rapes happening in India, and pehle toh aisa nahi tha, and I'm like, don't kid yourselves. That's always been the case. Today, because of the infiltration of media, and social media, it is being reported more. When in France that guy drove that truck on the pavement over people, there were people taking videos. The reality becomes that much more immediate for you. Now, it is not just the written words, that can be interpreted in any way, but those images are constantly on social media. Then you feel like ki pehle toh aisa nahi hota tha, aaj kal kya kya hone laga hai. Aaj kal kya kya hone laga hai nahi, aaj kal at least woh baatein ho rahi hai. The big advantage is that people know that they are not alone anymore. And that gives them the strength to come out.

How much is the film industry equal today? Because Bollywood is always pitched as a structure where the heroine is priority B and the hero runs the system. We are beginning to talk about how much a heroine is being paid as a sort of an index, but is that a true reflection?
While I definitely think that equal pay is something that needs to be arrived at across the board, I don't think that that is the only measure. Look at the kind of films that are being made these days. I feel that, again, out of a 100 films - and I am not saying male-centric or women-centric, that's not the point - at least there are 10 films where the woman has something substantial to do, from a time where you could take the woman out but the story would still go on.While we have had the golden period and we have had women playing strong roles, but I believe that in those times you still eulogised the sacrificial woman. I love Mother India, but it was a mother who sacrificed her son. The pain and suffering were the definitive characteristics of the women.

Now you can't have songs like Na Jao Saiyyan... They won't work.
Correct. Today, that dependence on the man to derive your identity has lessened in films.

So maybe The Dirty Picture and Queen are the two templates?
Yeah, definitely. Even, Piku, for example. She just decided that she didn't want to be married. So what if the only man in her life, who she focused all her energies on, had passed on? That didn't mean that she will hold on to the man she next saw. I think the grammar, the idiom is changing. And even there are some apologetic attempts at the so-called women-centric films, but at least that is happening. Do gaali bak diye, chaar thappad laga diye, toh lagata hai ki empowerment ho gaya hai. But if that is the symbol of empowerment, even if not at a deeper level, it is okay. When I did Hamari Adhuri Kahani, I didn't want to limit myself to a certain belief system. My work isn't an extension of my beliefs. I actually had to grapple with it. If I was in her place, I would have kicked the man back where it hurt the most and said, 'Dare you raise your hand on me. Who do you think you are?' But it is not Vidya Balan that I am playing in the film. So, that's when I have to sometimes step back and say that the character is not me. And not everyone does bagawat. I cannot define what it should be for another woman.

So there is Hamari Adhuri Kahani and there is Gone Girl!
Exactly! They are two ends of the spectrum, but they are both realities, especially in our country.

Would you have wanted to play the role in Gone Girl?
Oh, I would have loved to! I saw it and I was like 'Oh My God!'

Is that closer to Vidya?
(Laughs) I don't think I am very violent, but yes, that sort a woman excites me. As a person, I don't think I would give into so much manipulation. I would say it as it is. Though I loved the film. And someone fed me the thought that it could be Kahaani 2. When I did Ishqiya, I remember even today the number of women who told me that they loved the fact that she manipulated these two men to get where she wanted.

That's a popular sentiment today ­ the girl playing the guy back, beating him via the mind.
Yes! I had lots of people saying (in the context of Ishqiya), 'Achha hua jala diya usko. Wahi hona tha uske saath. Dekho kaise daga diya'.

If you go back to Mirch Masala and that moment of mirchi jhonk, that sort of empowerment...
That's the thing. We can't decide for ourselves what is empowerment. Empowerment is also relative. Coming from the background that I do, where I was brought up to believe that I am an individual first and nothing can hold me back if I wanted to do something, I look at things very differently from a girl who has had to stand up every time an elderly male in the family came in or who was said ki tumhara bhai school ja sakta hai, tum nahi, or when she was made to eat after all the male members were finished, even if she was dying of hunger. So I can't decide that she has to react the same way that I do.

Given the kind of role you are currently working on, a question - would somebody who runs a brothel be a feminist?
Actually, someone who runs a brothel could very well be a feminist. We see the woman in the terms of a body, probably not even so much as a prostitute, but as the madame of a brothel, you understand that it is beyond the body. So you are not just defining the person in the terms of the body anymore. It's not just merely exploitative. She is not just picking up girls to sell them. I think she is someone who knows that I have the right over my body and these girls have the right over their bodies, and they have landed up here because of some majboori, but now that I am here, I am going to call the shots. What brought you there is unfortunate, but now that you are here, you call the shots. So, she is someone who sees it as just business, there is no moral judgement to it. It is very interesting because it is set during the Partition, and it is juxtaposed against the partition of the body. Because you are saying that half the brothel belongs to Hindustan and half to Pakistan. But this is my house! So are you going to cut half of me? To my mind, she is what we could call, for lack of a better word, an extremely evolved human being. Who comes, who goes, how much they pay, whether the house will finally belong to Hindustan or Pakistan - all of this is something that she decides. She says that my body is my space, you don't have a right over it. Similarly, my house is my space, and you can't run a line through it. So there are lots of semi-political undercurrents and gender politics. She will also manipulate. She knows how to use and manipulate men. She knows how to charm them, how to control them.

When I saw the original Bengali film (Rajkahini), there were lots of things that I hadn't thought about actively and forget articulating, but suddenly I said, 'Oh my God! It is about space being appropriated.' You process all this and it comes to you later, but at the feeling level, I was just so moved by the fact that she would just not let anyone else decide for her.

She could be a mother sometimes, yes, she could be a seductress, could be exploitative, she is a businesswoman sometimes, she is manipulative sometime, she is cajoling sometimes, she is charming sometimes. She is all of that. But she is what she decided she wants to be.

When we celebrate the anniversary of our Independence, we tend to conveniently forget that it is also the anniversary of our Partition, of massive bloodshed. And when there is Partition, when there is war, inevitably, the women are, in greater number, the losing side. Because they are abused both ways. Even if they are not killed, it doesn't mean they will get away, they will be caught up in the power game.
I was reading The Other Side Of Silence by Urvashi Butalia and that's exactly what she said. What about those women who didn't manage to go to the other side on time and probably settled with men from other communities? Sometimes they were forcibly still taken back. For example, Muslim women were taken to Pakistan, even though their families were here, Hindu women were brought back here and their families were not accepting of them, because they had lived with Muslim men. And there was rape and abduction... It's about women who really had absolutely no voice in this. It was only the men who were deciding whether to cross over or not. So, yeah, we don't talk about all this, because freedom is something to be celebrated.

Ours is still a culture where the realities are very hard. There was a flower seller in Marine Drive, I often buy flowers from these kids, and this one girl was quoting a very high price. And I was like, 'Kyun itna bhav bol rahi ho?' And she said, 'Kyun didi, aapke picture ka ticket 200 rupaye ka hai, hum jaake dekhte hai na fir bhi? Pehle toh 150 ka tha lekin hum fir bhi jaake dekhte hai na?' I knew that for those two hours that she goes in to the theatre, she should just be able to feel. And I am not therefore saying that there should be mindless entertainment films, those are also being made extremely well and are doing well. Though I am not capable of doing those films.

So, I don't think anyone would want to remember how it came through. Partition was extremely painful for people and I don't think they want to remember the day as its anniversary.