Showing posts with label Hindustan Ki Kasam. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hindustan Ki Kasam. Show all posts
Films often focus on the character rather than getting military details right, say experts
8:14 AM
The film Rustom (2016) got the Navy uniform wrong in many ways. Though it was set in the 1950s, Akshay Kumar’s character, naval officer Cdr K M Nanavati, wore the Kargil Star (1999) as well as other medals from recent decades. The name tag was also introduced in the 1970s
Niharika Lal (BOMBAY TIMES; October 22, 2021)
Soon after the release of the first poster of Akshay Kumar’s film Gorkha – where the actor is seen holding a khukri – former Army officer Major Manik M Jolly tweeted to Kumar, pointing out that a traditional khukri is different. He wrote, “Dear Akshay Kumar ji, as an ex Gorkha officer, my thanks to you for making this movie. However, details matter. Kindly get the Khukri right.(sic)” Kumar responded, “We’ll take utmost care while filming. I’m very proud and honoured to be making Gorkha. Any suggestions to get it closest to reality would be most appreciated.”
This isn’t the first time an officer has pointed out a mistake in Bollywood films. We spoke to a few officers from the armed forces and experts to understand why they often don’t get it right.
‘FILMMAKERS OFTEN DON’T DISCUSS DETAILS WITH MILITARY HISTORIANS, SO THEY GET THEM WRONG’
Experts say that most films can’t survive the test of accuracy because filmmakers don’t understand the nuances of the uniform, dialogues or weapons. A serving Army officer on condition of anonymity says, “The reason they don’t get it right is that they take shortcuts and do not want to get into details. While a war movie still has some nuances, if it’s a general movie where a character happens to be a military officer, it seems like they just randomly pick whatever uniform is available. Be it unit, core or colours – they get nothing right. Peace uniforms and combat gear is entirely different, but filmmakers do not differentiate.”
“Ribbons signify a lot in the military uniform, but they are used as an embellishment in Bollywood films, and so are caps. What usually happens is that filmmakers do not discuss this with military historians, and that’s why they don’t get those details right. I remember in the film Tirangaa (1993), there is a clip that introduces Raaj Kumar and it says that the Major was promoted to Brigadier. It is preposterous. But the focus for them was on Raaj Kumar’s character and not the wrong ranks they were using in dialogues. Similarly, in Jab Tak Hai Jaan, SRK’s character is so filmy, but then it is also the USP of the film,” says Gautam Chintamani, a film historian.
‘IN RECENT TIMES, URI AND SHERSHAAH HAVE GOTTEN IT RIGHT,THANKS TO ADVICE FROM MILITARY EXPERTS’
Film historian Gautam Chintamani points out that there are films like Govind Nihlani’s Vijeta (1982) or Prahaar: The Final Attack (1991), starring Nana Patekar, that have gotten it right. He says, “Even the war scenes in Chetan Anand’s Hindustan Ki Kasam (1973) were so good because they consulted the retired officers. In recent years, Uri (2019) and Shershaah (2021) were both bang-on in their depictions of the military. Right now there is a keen interest of the audience to see these characters, and even military officers are watching and responding, which is great.”
Uri, too, had former Army officers on board as advisors. Major General (Retired) A K Siwach, who was the Defence advisor for Uri, told us earlier, “I had asked for changes in the first draft of Uri and for them to revise the script again. I also told them to give the background of the operations and characters. Getting the nuances right is the most important thing for such films. For example, for the surgical strike scene, they wanted there to be a tunnel. I told them there are no tunnels there, make it caves. I have asked for changes several times.”
In Main Hoon Na (2004), Shah Rukh Khan’s character is of a Para Commando but the cap he wears is ceremonial
When will Bollywood gets its blockbuster war film?
7:47 AM
Aarushi Nigam (BOMBAY TIMES; December 8, 2017)
We love our movies. And we love our armed forces. But the powers of association alone are not enough to make us love our movies on the armed forces. While almost every major actor has played a soldier at least once, and a few others have made it a career regular, only a small percentage of those films is actually about the forces (and not a plot device to complicate a love story), and even a smaller percentage has clicked with audiences. Where is our blockbuster war film? Or one that swept away the National Awards and the box office? While tributes pour in for our men and women in uniform from all quarters including the film industry today, the best kind of tribute to our forces from the film industry – a defining, universally-appreciated war drama – is still missing. And as an audience, while the service and sacrifice of our uniformed forces might ignite our collective passions, the same can’t be said of consuming that topic on the big screen.
THE POST-WAR YEARS AND CINEMA
The conflicts of 1962, 1965 and 1971 inspired several films that rode the wave of nationalistic sentiment sweeping through the country at the time. Haqeeqat (1964) and Border (1997), based on the Sino-Indian conflict and the 1971 war with Pakistan respectively, are perhaps our only two war films that can be unquestionably called successful, in terms of winning over both critics and audiences. Many others, like Hindustan Ki Kasam (1973) and Vijeta (1982), will find mention among the better films on the forces to be made, and are remembered till today even though they failed to pull in audiences at the time. The 2017 film The Ghazi Attack, about the mysterious sinking of the PNS Ghazi in the 1971 war, suffered its own mysterious sinking — it earned positive reviews, but not box office numbers. 1971 (2007) might have won the National Award for Best Hindi Feature Film, but mention it to most and you wouldn’t get an immediate recollection.
The Kargil War, the first to be fought in the 24-hour news cycle that brought the war to our living rooms and nationalistic fervour out on our streets, failed to inspire the same zeal on the silver screen. The long-winding and multi-heroed L.O.C. Kargil could keep neither the viewers nor the critics glued, even as real-life accounts from the war, retold in countless Facebook posts, news articles and books,continue to find takers till today.
FICTIONAL CONFLICTS ON THE SILVER SCREEN
There have been other films with fictional stories set in the backdrop of real conflicts, but most haven’t come even close to being successful. The most enduring image from the 2011 Mausam might be of Shahid Kapoor in his Air Force uniform, but the image is all that still remains in audience memory. Others, including Param Vir Chakra (1995), Agnipankh (2004), Deewaar – Let’s Bring Our Heroes Home (2004) and Ab Tumhare Hawale Watan Saathiyo (2004), haven’t survived the test of time barely gone by since they released.
With a history like this, Pakistan will ban anything based on reality
8:13 AM
The Pakistani establishment didn't need to watch Phantom before banning it. The film is based on 2611, after all, and which narrative of the terror strike will gel well with powers that side of the border? Given our history, it's no wonder that the real-life topics Bollywood explores -from war to terror -leave our neighbour jittery, irrespective of the movies' actual content
Anshul Chaturvedi & Aarushi Nigam (BOMBAY TIMES; September 1, 2015)
It's a globally-wanted
terrorist wanting Phantom to be banned today, it was a government agency
which didn't like Agent Vinod yesterday, it, it could be an outraged TV
host wanting to stop Indian movies altogether, or a pressure group
demanding a ban on another Bollywood release tomorrow. Whichever the
aggrieved party be, there is bound to be 'something' in every other
Bollywood film that has a Pakistan context which will irk someone in
that country. And perhaps that can't be helped. Think of the most
high visibility points which a filmmaker will have for reference if he
wants a real
life peg in Indo-Pak relations, and you think of Partition, the Kashmir
conflict, the 1965 war, the 1971 war, the 1999 Kargil conflict, and then
the 26/11 terror attacks. While the past few years have seen a far
higher proportion of cinema which does away with the anti-Pakistan pitch,
portrays the people (if not the government) in a friendly light, and
doesn't pander to hysteria or jingoism, there's an interesting footnote:
Almost all the films with a nicer, sweeter storyline to them are based
on fictitious stories, while almost all the ones that have an edgier,
likely-to-be-banned storyline are based in one way or another on the
half-a-dozen flashpoints in the not-so-friendly history that India and
Pakistan share. Since Phantom is,
post-ban, part of the latter group, here's a quick recap of how that
script has played out in Bollywood over the years:
THE JINGOISTIC POST-WAR YEARS, AND THE FULL-TIME BAN
Anti-Pakistan sentiment ran high after the wars of 1947-48, 1965 and 1971, and the prevailing distrust between the two countries in those years was mirrored by cinema. Hindustan Ki Kasam (1973), which was based on Operation Cactus Lily in the 1971 war, opens with the Pakistan Air Force raiding an IAF airbase and Raj Kumar swearing on the body of a dead crewman, “Jawaab dene aaunga, is jawan ki kasam, Hindustan ki kasam“.
The 'we will show them' sentiment continued through films like Aakraman (1975) and later in films like Vijeta (1982) and Border (1997). The multi-starrer Border which did pretty well at the box office, zoomed in on the Battle of Longewala, from the romantic back-stories of its leading officers to their detailed, gory deaths, to the final moments leading to India's victory. The Indian Army itself questioned some of the specifics, but for the public, the emotion was enough. And given that Pakistan had banned the screening of 'all' Indian movies after the 1965 war, no filmmaker had an incentive to paint a wider canvas that could appeal to audiences on both sides of the border. Even if you had a Pakistan-friendly tone to your movie, the neighbouring country wasn't going to let you screen it there anyway.
POST KARGIL: SUNNY PAAJI'S HANDPUMP AND THE L.O.C
India's first modern war, fought in the 24-hour news cycle, “rejuvenated nationalism“ in the words of one news anchor, and spawned several films on the war itself and on the Indo-Pak relationship - or, rather, the lack of one. Pictures and tales of bravery of young, martyred war heroes fired collective passions (who can forget Captain Vikram Batra and his war cry of 'yeh dil maange more'?), and also gave Bollywood a fail-safe formula. Gadar: Ek Prem Katha (2001) came when war wounds were fresh and though it was based not on Kargil but on the painful subject of the Partition, Sunny Deol single-handedly pummeling those Pakistanis who tried to keep away his wife from him and her from their son was irresistible, and a massive hit. LOC Kargil (2003) had a multi-star cast playing the real men who led the Kargil effort, bringing the dashing and the daredevilry of the likes of Captain Batra, Captain Vijayant Thapar, Captain Manoj Kumar Pandey, and Captain Anuj Nayyar alive to tug at thousands of heartstrings. It played wholeheartedly to the post-war gallery with its detailed scenes of major battles and main characters' deaths, copious exchanges of insults between the two sides during gunbattles, and showing Pakistani troops as complete villains - remember the apparently-true tale of one enemy soldier asking for Madhuri Dixit to end the war, and Abhishek Bachchan dousing the lot of them in bullets before responding with, 'from Madhuri, with love'?
It didn't end there. There was much Pak-bashing that followed the theme of Pakistan as a terrorist factory. Gadar director Anil Sharma's Ab Tumhare Hawale Watan Saathiyo (2004) was a mishmash of everything wrong that Pakistan could do, from war to capturing and torturing Indian soldiers to sponsoring a terror plot to bomb Amarnath, but perhaps as a sign of the gradually changing times, the film did an abrupt U-turn in the end as India and Pakistan shake hands and agree to fight terrorism together. Deewaar: Lets Bring Our Heroes Home (2004) was about a bunch of Indian POWs forgotten in a Pak jail for 33 years and their bid to escape, as was 1971, the movie for which Manoj Bajpayee got a National Award as best actor, but apparently, no one other than the jury actually watched the film. Zameen (2003) was based on the attack on the Indian Parliament and the IC 814 hijack. Neither Deewaar nor Zameen was exactly praised for being true-to-life, but both rode the jingoistic horse high. Sunny Deol's roaring act continued with Maa Tujhe Salaam (2002), and the film ended up being banned even in Britain as it offended the Pakistani diaspora.
BEYOND THE WAR ZONE, THE BAN REVERSAL, AND THE AGENTS
In more recent years, two things happened. One, the blanket ban on the screening of Indian movies in theatres was lifted by Pervez Musharraf in 2006, and so Indian filmmakers began to find a new market to tap, one that would perhaps subtly influence how films were structured. It may be a coincidence, but no further movies around an Indo-Pak military conflict have been made since then. Two, as the battle itself shifted from the borders to the more rarified world of intelligence and covert operations, we had a shift of scene: Instead of posters of soldiers with guns at the border, we now had a surplus of movies about intelligence agents. Now, while the RAW vs ISI game was as 'real' as Kargil, we don't really have live TV coverage of intelligence operations, and so the line between fact and fiction is difficult to place, giving filmmakers far greater creative licence than earlier movies on the more visible conflicts had. Given the popularity that the RAW enjoys in Pakistan, though, it is little surprise that movies like Agent Vinod and Ek Tha Tiger did not find a loving welcome and the Pakistani regime predictably opted to not have tales of flamboyant Indian agents getting the better of Pak intelligence played out on cinema screens. And so, given that tradition, Phantom now joins the illustrious list of movies that Pakistani authorities feel are better off not crossing the border, even though it's made by the same director who recently made Bajrangi Bhaijaan, a movie that some felt was the most Pakistan-friendly mainstream production to come out of India in decades.
Not that it means these 'banned' films have not been 'watched' in Pakistan, or that Phantom won't be. As the judge hearing the case filed by Hafiz Saeed in the Lahore High Court asked the counsel for the government, even if the movie is banned in cinemas, what can the government do to stop its CDs from being available in the market? What, indeed? Now that's one form of cross-border infiltration nobody's been able to check in all these years.
FOR DOSTI, THERE'S ALWAYS FICTION
"How could I make Bajrangi Bhaijaan if I was anti-Pakistan?“ was Kabir Khan's aggrieved response after Phantom got banned there. Perhaps he thought Bajrangi's saccharine-loaded tale was enough to buy him the trust of handling everything Pak-related with 'sensitivity' (this is the same guy who made Bajrangi, so this too must be coming from the same place. Never mind that it brands Pakistan as the brains behind a real-life terror plot and sends Indian agents on an assassin's quest). Umm, no. Sensitivity got nothing to do with it.
Bajrangi's goodwill isn't enough to make Phantom accepted in Pakistan, simply because its basic plot is the single most acrimonious point (okay, maybe not single) of difference between the two nations. So, it can be completely based on facts and not cooked-up lies about Pakistan, and may not demonise its entire population, but if the subject is enough to derail high-level talks between the neighbours several times, what chance does a mere film stand? Khan places too much faith in the power of reason.
If most Bollywood films based on the flashpoints of the Indo-Pak relationship aren't too loved by 'sarhad paar' headquarters no matter how nuanced, it's because those flashpoints are all of conflict. So what's a film got to do when it wants to be all about 'mulk, mohabbat and and dosti', aka Bajrangi? It needs to not draw inspiration from fact and reality (well, lots of Munnis emerged after BB so we don't know about that now). But an Indian smuggling a 'human' into Pakistan with no documents and at the mercy of strangers, and emerging not just in one piece but also much-loved - just how many planets would have to align to make even a fraction of this true? Fiction, when it comes to us and Pakistan, is what makes us realise how much we can love each other, because the newspapers can't. And makes us cry buckets at the cinema.
Whether it was Refugee's stateless baby born at (on?) the border that gave the message of peace, or Welcome 2 Karachi's bumbling idiots inadvertently exposing the futility of terrorism and war, Bollywood has had to be pretty creative to push its 'two-nations-ek-jaan' theory , because reality is no help at all. We exchange plenty of fire, insults and allegations but get equally misty-eyed when a Hindu Qaidi No 786 in Veer-Zaara asks, “Woh kehta hai yeh tera des nahi, phir kyun mere des jaisa lagta hai. Woh kehta hai main uss jaisa nahin, phir kyun mujh jaisa woh lagta hai?“ or when a Pakistani lawyer fights tooth and nail to reunite him with his long-lost Pakistani lover who has made India her home in his memory. We might watch most of Ek Tha Tiger's 'sleeping with the enemy' saga with bemusement, but still root for the agents-turned-lovers as their secret services try to gun them down. Tere Bin Laden satirises the mess that became America's war on terror in Pakistan and then gifts a happy ending to the protagonist who faked Osama's interview and precipitated an international crisis.
Fake or real, slowly, taali and seeti moments in cinema about Pakistan-bashing have been replaced by equivalent taali and seeti moments of loving thy neighbour. For the paisa-vasool brand of films, uprooting hand pumps and shouting death to Pakistan stopped being a formula for cheers years ago, only, whenever a film has to shout 'we love you Pakistan', it needs to create a story from scratch. But in this genre at least, masala Bollywood has shown it is capable of nuance Pakistan isn't the devil, people both sides of the border are, and aren't. And finally , who can hate such pretty faces as Katrina's and Munni's?
THE JINGOISTIC POST-WAR YEARS, AND THE FULL-TIME BAN
Anti-Pakistan sentiment ran high after the wars of 1947-48, 1965 and 1971, and the prevailing distrust between the two countries in those years was mirrored by cinema. Hindustan Ki Kasam (1973), which was based on Operation Cactus Lily in the 1971 war, opens with the Pakistan Air Force raiding an IAF airbase and Raj Kumar swearing on the body of a dead crewman, “Jawaab dene aaunga, is jawan ki kasam, Hindustan ki kasam“.
The 'we will show them' sentiment continued through films like Aakraman (1975) and later in films like Vijeta (1982) and Border (1997). The multi-starrer Border which did pretty well at the box office, zoomed in on the Battle of Longewala, from the romantic back-stories of its leading officers to their detailed, gory deaths, to the final moments leading to India's victory. The Indian Army itself questioned some of the specifics, but for the public, the emotion was enough. And given that Pakistan had banned the screening of 'all' Indian movies after the 1965 war, no filmmaker had an incentive to paint a wider canvas that could appeal to audiences on both sides of the border. Even if you had a Pakistan-friendly tone to your movie, the neighbouring country wasn't going to let you screen it there anyway.
POST KARGIL: SUNNY PAAJI'S HANDPUMP AND THE L.O.C
India's first modern war, fought in the 24-hour news cycle, “rejuvenated nationalism“ in the words of one news anchor, and spawned several films on the war itself and on the Indo-Pak relationship - or, rather, the lack of one. Pictures and tales of bravery of young, martyred war heroes fired collective passions (who can forget Captain Vikram Batra and his war cry of 'yeh dil maange more'?), and also gave Bollywood a fail-safe formula. Gadar: Ek Prem Katha (2001) came when war wounds were fresh and though it was based not on Kargil but on the painful subject of the Partition, Sunny Deol single-handedly pummeling those Pakistanis who tried to keep away his wife from him and her from their son was irresistible, and a massive hit. LOC Kargil (2003) had a multi-star cast playing the real men who led the Kargil effort, bringing the dashing and the daredevilry of the likes of Captain Batra, Captain Vijayant Thapar, Captain Manoj Kumar Pandey, and Captain Anuj Nayyar alive to tug at thousands of heartstrings. It played wholeheartedly to the post-war gallery with its detailed scenes of major battles and main characters' deaths, copious exchanges of insults between the two sides during gunbattles, and showing Pakistani troops as complete villains - remember the apparently-true tale of one enemy soldier asking for Madhuri Dixit to end the war, and Abhishek Bachchan dousing the lot of them in bullets before responding with, 'from Madhuri, with love'?
It didn't end there. There was much Pak-bashing that followed the theme of Pakistan as a terrorist factory. Gadar director Anil Sharma's Ab Tumhare Hawale Watan Saathiyo (2004) was a mishmash of everything wrong that Pakistan could do, from war to capturing and torturing Indian soldiers to sponsoring a terror plot to bomb Amarnath, but perhaps as a sign of the gradually changing times, the film did an abrupt U-turn in the end as India and Pakistan shake hands and agree to fight terrorism together. Deewaar: Lets Bring Our Heroes Home (2004) was about a bunch of Indian POWs forgotten in a Pak jail for 33 years and their bid to escape, as was 1971, the movie for which Manoj Bajpayee got a National Award as best actor, but apparently, no one other than the jury actually watched the film. Zameen (2003) was based on the attack on the Indian Parliament and the IC 814 hijack. Neither Deewaar nor Zameen was exactly praised for being true-to-life, but both rode the jingoistic horse high. Sunny Deol's roaring act continued with Maa Tujhe Salaam (2002), and the film ended up being banned even in Britain as it offended the Pakistani diaspora.
BEYOND THE WAR ZONE, THE BAN REVERSAL, AND THE AGENTS
In more recent years, two things happened. One, the blanket ban on the screening of Indian movies in theatres was lifted by Pervez Musharraf in 2006, and so Indian filmmakers began to find a new market to tap, one that would perhaps subtly influence how films were structured. It may be a coincidence, but no further movies around an Indo-Pak military conflict have been made since then. Two, as the battle itself shifted from the borders to the more rarified world of intelligence and covert operations, we had a shift of scene: Instead of posters of soldiers with guns at the border, we now had a surplus of movies about intelligence agents. Now, while the RAW vs ISI game was as 'real' as Kargil, we don't really have live TV coverage of intelligence operations, and so the line between fact and fiction is difficult to place, giving filmmakers far greater creative licence than earlier movies on the more visible conflicts had. Given the popularity that the RAW enjoys in Pakistan, though, it is little surprise that movies like Agent Vinod and Ek Tha Tiger did not find a loving welcome and the Pakistani regime predictably opted to not have tales of flamboyant Indian agents getting the better of Pak intelligence played out on cinema screens. And so, given that tradition, Phantom now joins the illustrious list of movies that Pakistani authorities feel are better off not crossing the border, even though it's made by the same director who recently made Bajrangi Bhaijaan, a movie that some felt was the most Pakistan-friendly mainstream production to come out of India in decades.
Not that it means these 'banned' films have not been 'watched' in Pakistan, or that Phantom won't be. As the judge hearing the case filed by Hafiz Saeed in the Lahore High Court asked the counsel for the government, even if the movie is banned in cinemas, what can the government do to stop its CDs from being available in the market? What, indeed? Now that's one form of cross-border infiltration nobody's been able to check in all these years.
FOR DOSTI, THERE'S ALWAYS FICTION
"How could I make Bajrangi Bhaijaan if I was anti-Pakistan?“ was Kabir Khan's aggrieved response after Phantom got banned there. Perhaps he thought Bajrangi's saccharine-loaded tale was enough to buy him the trust of handling everything Pak-related with 'sensitivity' (this is the same guy who made Bajrangi, so this too must be coming from the same place. Never mind that it brands Pakistan as the brains behind a real-life terror plot and sends Indian agents on an assassin's quest). Umm, no. Sensitivity got nothing to do with it.
Bajrangi's goodwill isn't enough to make Phantom accepted in Pakistan, simply because its basic plot is the single most acrimonious point (okay, maybe not single) of difference between the two nations. So, it can be completely based on facts and not cooked-up lies about Pakistan, and may not demonise its entire population, but if the subject is enough to derail high-level talks between the neighbours several times, what chance does a mere film stand? Khan places too much faith in the power of reason.
If most Bollywood films based on the flashpoints of the Indo-Pak relationship aren't too loved by 'sarhad paar' headquarters no matter how nuanced, it's because those flashpoints are all of conflict. So what's a film got to do when it wants to be all about 'mulk, mohabbat and and dosti', aka Bajrangi? It needs to not draw inspiration from fact and reality (well, lots of Munnis emerged after BB so we don't know about that now). But an Indian smuggling a 'human' into Pakistan with no documents and at the mercy of strangers, and emerging not just in one piece but also much-loved - just how many planets would have to align to make even a fraction of this true? Fiction, when it comes to us and Pakistan, is what makes us realise how much we can love each other, because the newspapers can't. And makes us cry buckets at the cinema.
Whether it was Refugee's stateless baby born at (on?) the border that gave the message of peace, or Welcome 2 Karachi's bumbling idiots inadvertently exposing the futility of terrorism and war, Bollywood has had to be pretty creative to push its 'two-nations-ek-jaan' theory , because reality is no help at all. We exchange plenty of fire, insults and allegations but get equally misty-eyed when a Hindu Qaidi No 786 in Veer-Zaara asks, “Woh kehta hai yeh tera des nahi, phir kyun mere des jaisa lagta hai. Woh kehta hai main uss jaisa nahin, phir kyun mujh jaisa woh lagta hai?“ or when a Pakistani lawyer fights tooth and nail to reunite him with his long-lost Pakistani lover who has made India her home in his memory. We might watch most of Ek Tha Tiger's 'sleeping with the enemy' saga with bemusement, but still root for the agents-turned-lovers as their secret services try to gun them down. Tere Bin Laden satirises the mess that became America's war on terror in Pakistan and then gifts a happy ending to the protagonist who faked Osama's interview and precipitated an international crisis.
Fake or real, slowly, taali and seeti moments in cinema about Pakistan-bashing have been replaced by equivalent taali and seeti moments of loving thy neighbour. For the paisa-vasool brand of films, uprooting hand pumps and shouting death to Pakistan stopped being a formula for cheers years ago, only, whenever a film has to shout 'we love you Pakistan', it needs to create a story from scratch. But in this genre at least, masala Bollywood has shown it is capable of nuance Pakistan isn't the devil, people both sides of the border are, and aren't. And finally , who can hate such pretty faces as Katrina's and Munni's?
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