My friendship with Satish (Kaushik) began on the set of Swarg (1990), our first film together. Since then, I cast him in practically all my films. It became a habit. He felt a [sense of] ownership over me. If I started a film and he wasn’t starring in it, he would ask me, ‘Why isn’t my name included in this film? Are you not casting me?’

We enjoyed such a comfort level that he would call and say, ‘Tu ghar bulata nahin hai.’ I would immediately tell him, ‘Chal, aaja ghar pe.’ He would frequently visit my house. He was a very jovial person, and would crack jokes. With him, time passed by in a flash — eating and drinking together, and talking about movies.

Having written Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro (1983) with Sudhir Mishra, he was an expert in [writing comedy]. He would write the dialogues of his characters, and narrate them to me. His dialogues inevitably took the characters a few notches higher.

Pappu Pager [in Deewana Mastana, 1997] is one of Satish’s most iconic roles. He was present in barely a few scenes, but he worked on the character, ensuring that it became memorable. I remember on the day we were to shoot his scenes in Hyderabad, he said, ‘David yaar, mazaa nahin aa raha hai.’ So, I cancelled that day’s shoot. He promised, ‘Dekh main kya karta hoon’, [and reworked the lines]. Govinda also added his own lines with Satish.

When we finally filmed those scenes in Mumbai, they created wonders together, and Pappu Pager’s scenes became among the highlights of the film. When Anil Kapoor saw the scenes, he told Satish to write his dialogues too.

Whenever Satish came on the set, I was confident that the scenes would turn out fantastic. Govinda and he would rock it every time they faced the camera together. When Rohit [Dhawan, director-son] made his debut with Desi Boyz (2011), he cast Satish for the role of Mr Dhillon. Though he had only one scene with Akshay Kumar and John Abraham, he knocked it out of the park

Later, I suggested that Rohit use Satish, even if only as the voice of Qureshi in Dishoom (2016). I knew that he was so outstanding an actor that even with his voice, he would add value to the role. Satish was underrated as an actor, and deserved a lot more.

Having collaborated on numerous occasions, filmmaker Sajid Nadiadwala and director David Dhawan's friendship has stood the test of time. The hit jodi, who made the 1997 blockbuster Judwaa, has joined hands once again to give us a reboot of the film, which will see Varun Dhawan reprising the double role that Salman Khan had essayed in the original. In a candid, fun-filled chat with BT, the duo talks about the future of commercial potboilers, thoughts on 'industry kids' having it easy, Varun being compared to Salman and why there won't be a 'butt-slapping scene' in Judwaa 2, unlike the original. Excerpts...

David, how different was it to direct Varun in Judwaa 2 as opposed to Salman in the original?
David: They are very different actors, Salman is something else. Initially, I thought that he was lazy, but he takes time to settle down and once he does, he knows exactly what needs to be done. He can hold the audience's attention. Also, there's something very endearing about him; his niceness is believable and genuine. He is the most charming actor we have. I always tell Varun that he should be as endearing as Salman.
Sajid: While shooting for Judwaa, Salman said, 'Main Hum Aapke Hain Koun ka hero hoon, I can't do pelvic thrusts.' I was worried that David would hear that and say, 'pack up' (laughs).

Varun was launched by Karan Johar (Student Of The Year). It's not often that rank outsiders get such an opportunities. Since you two have been in the industry for long, what's your take on the ongoing debate on nepotism?
David: It is easier for an industry boy to get opportunities, but in the end, you need talent to survive. Also, all of us are outsiders. I struggled for 10 years before my films started making money. Sajid, too, has seen bad times till Jeet and Judwaa happened. Let me tell you, I haven't helped my sons Rohit or Varun professionally. I got to know from a third person that Rohit is making a film. Same with Varun - he doesn't want to take my help. Karan came to my house to inform me that Varun will be launched in his film. Rohit and I were surprised that he was going to be a hero. Varun didn't have to go through the kind of struggles that I did because yeh uska muqaddar hai. I had a poor father, but Varun has a rich father (laughs). Of course, Karan ki film ho gayi isliye, varna mujhe usse launch karna hi padta. I am his father, after all. But he was destined to make it on his own.
Sajid: What do I do if my son wants to be an actor? Should I tell him that he is not supposed to be one because of nepotism? This word has cropped up recently. You have girls like Jacqueline Fernandez and Katrina Kaif who are not from here; Akshay Kumar is also an outsider. Also, every industry kid has a father who has struggled. Look at David ji, I still remember he had a scooter for the longest time jo kabhi chalu hi nahi hoti thi.

As a father, how do you react to the media attention on Varun's personal life?
David: I don't question him about rumours of his affairs and link-ups. At times, my wife prompts me to ask him about it, but I don't. That's his life; I am not bothered by all that.

Sajid, you have been producing films for almost 32 years. David, you've directed 44 films till date. How has the industry changed over the years?
David: Back in those days, I remember the biggest black ticketer at Gaiety, Galaxy telling me that he had bought a house by selling black tickets for my movies. I miss that time. Also, earlier, the industry was like a family. We would say, 'Chal yaar, picture banate hain'. Now, everything is very professional. Even my son (Varun) was professional with me during the shoot of the film (laughs). So, whenever I had a problem with Varun or anyone else, I would ask Sajid to handle them. I have known Sajid for over 20 years, and we are on a similar wavelength.
Sajid: I only work with those I get along with. It doesn't matter how successful or unsuccessful they are. David and I are friends, but he is way too senior. So, be it any decision, I often convey it to him through his sons. I even discussed the casting of Judwaa 2 with Rohit first.

The original Judwaa released 20 years ago. So, did you alter your sensibility to cater to the changing times? For instance, the butt-slapping scene in the original may not go down too well with the audience now...
David: I have made a few alterations, but I didn't tamper the original. We deleted that scene after Varun censured it. I guess that's why it helps to work with the younger generation; they give you a newer perspective. Also, if you feel the need to change a film completely, that means you are not confident about it at all.

David, weren't you apprehensive about casting your son in the remake, as that inadvertently pits him against a superstar like Salman Khan, who was in the original?
David: I never thought about it as a comparison because we are very close to Salman. That relationship is something else.
Sajid: Every actor has his own space. Be it Amitabh Bachchan or Shah Rukh Khan, as was proved in the Don remake. There cannot be any comparison as they are two different personalities. Varun must have been nine years old when Judwaa released.

David, you are known to be a taskmaster on the set. Is that true?
David: Work is priority for me. I might like you, but work comes first. If you are not good (professionally), no matter how much I like you as a person, I will throw you out of my film. I have done it before. The day I get to know that an actor is spoiling my film, I will throw him out.

Were you strict with Varun on the set or did the dad in you overpower the director at times?
David: It was the reverse. I probably treated him worse than the others, I was tougher on him. So much so, he even complained to his mother! But eventually, he came around and told me that what I did was right.
Sajid: At times, I would have to convince David to let Varun do a retake if he wanted to. Once I even told his brother (Rohit) that Varun is a star, so you all should treat him a bit nicely (laughs).

An unlikely crowd of photo enthusiasts with a peculiar taste in clothes, and eyes sodomised by sleep deprivation had gathered at the footsteps of a villa in Lokhandwala that housed ZIMA's filmmaking academy, sporting the sort of enthusiasm that was reserved for an A-list celebrity. In a collared tee that had faded beyond redemption, the paunchy figure of David Dhawan does not conform to many pre-existing norms that one associates with Lokhandwala celebritydom. But surrounded by these bug eyed students, the man enjoyed the reverence of a god amidst his subjects. In stark contrast was the demeanour of Nikhil Kannan Kutty, a skinny student at the establishment who seemed to have lost his weight and wherewithal with the worries of venturing his questions to his idol. These questions inscribed on a sheaf of papers were few in number, but had personal precursors that were lengthy enough to warrant a screenplay of their own. Dhawan's replies bore an empathy that fed on these precursors, as he replied with the eyes of a man revisiting his own past.

Nikhil's first question, minus the preface, was about the transition of Dhawan's ambitions during his formative years. “I had absolutely no ambitions of becoming a filmmaker. But I saw my brother in FTII trying to become a filmmaker and I thought, why not me,“ he says. Dhawan had enrolled at the academy to become an actor. But watching actors perform there, got him worried. “This is not something I can do, I thought. Folks there were encouraging. They let me choose a different course which is how I ended up choosing editing.“ He is quick to clarify that the work here was “not monumental stuff“. We would watch foreign features, he says which had the biggest impact on his craft.

Nikhil prods further, dissatisfied with the reply. “Before I directed my first movie Taaqatwar in 1984, I didn't assist anyone. I had only worked as an editor. But I think the best thing I have done in my career was my choice to learn editing. It gave me the confidence, that no matter whom the actor in front of the camera, no matter his performance, once it reached the chopping board, I could make something out of what he had done,“ offers Dhawan. Without preparation, he tells us, he would enter the production studio and get to work on the scene that had been shot. By nightfall, it was complete. When you are shooting that scene however, it is the filmmaker's job to know everything, acting cinematography, editing, etc. If you have a solid grasp over one, you can learn the others over time.

A phrase that David introduces during the interview, reverberates amidst the eager students like a pundit's chant in a temple - practical knowledge. It is a quality he attributes his greatest successes to, a discipline every filmmaker must adhere to in his lifetime. He defines it as the perceptivity of spotting the idiosyncrasies in our daily lives and utilising them in filmmaking. A conversation with an auto rickshaw driver might spark a character a writer is struggling with in his story to multi-textured life. A street smart haggler might become a proficient production savant because of his ability to economise while dealing with money leeches appearing on a film's set. Such a profound perspicacity sounds astonishing, almost misplaced, for a filmmaker who has built his clout in larger than life hilarity and vaude villian humour for the masses. But that Dhawan reveals was all a part of his master plan. “My main ambition is entertainment. In the institute, a majority of the movies that were shown were all dark films. Even the filmmakers at the time were like that. Had I followed in their footsteps, I would have had to pack my bags a long time ago,“ he says.

Dhawan stayed true to his inspirations. Mr. Manmohan Desai as its headmaster at our school of entertainment had, he says. “I worked towards light entertainment, fun and mischief. With Govinda, we ended up creating our own vocabulary. People loved that kind of cinema. I believe in the maxim that 'public hai, woh sab jaanti hai'.“

He reiterates that he meant no disrespect to filmmakers like Godard or Fellaini. “You must learn from them and understand their films. But then you must stick to your culture,“ he tells Nikhil.

Nikhil ponders the changing world of Indian cinema where techniques and styles are gaining more fanatical evangelists. Does David's school of simplistic cinema still hold good, he asks. Dhawan's reply puts rest to any doubts. According to him, humour and emotion will never lose its pride of place in cinema. He says “If what you show with your actors on the screen is good, all the style and techniques you use can only make them better. It is never the other way around.“

In the fading light of the evening, as David and his entourage disparate in the whiff of a beaten down Range Rover's smoke, Nikhil chomps on a samosa with a quiet confidence. He admits to never realising, how even his disillusionment with his future is a gift for him as a creative artist. That his struggles are as important as his successes will be. That the samosa he was chomping on tasted best on an empty stomach. He wrote these lines down on his notepad under the heading of Practical Knowledge 101.